you know I was recently disfellowshiped by the organization and I am still an avid belever and still love my Ex-brothers and sisters You all can F___ off and I dare any one of you to call me my #3373162(deleted) ask for joseph please call Ill accept all apostate calls 2/25/04
(Anyone of me isn't going to call, Joe - no matter how much you "dare me" - what is your objective here? You seem a bit at cross-purposes...)
(Think I had better start dating these - they are most recent first)
this site is only about hating jws so i hate this site
none of your bussines,
Uh-oh! Somebody didn't read anything on the site if that's the impression received. I love JWs a few at a time, I just feel bad that they, like many others on this planet, are under the thumb of an organization that takes away more from their spiritual growth than it gives, a leadership that governs more by fear than by love. It's not hate at all, but empathy for the misled followers and an experienced judgment and rejection of the leadership and some of their very destructive policies. In earlier days, JWs had more of a liberationist appeal - that's all done now. Check the daily news for the next JW who has left a baby in a trash bin, held their family at gunpoint, molested a child or covered it up...the list goes on, out of proportion to the number of JWs in the population. But what the news won't tell you are the daily stories of families rejecting their own members rather than setting a good example, people living with exaggerated fears about a god who is going to kill most of humanity - pretty soon - and this on top of the fears laid upon us by other powers and authorities to control us, make us buy things, and stay quiet. What happens with JWs has given me a little bit of insight into a bigger picture. In any case, what the site offers is resources for people who have already left, and who are looking for information, strategies, advice, and maybe a wry smile or two. Here only to help. This is not a hate site, and it's actually a bit disconcerting at times to see the hate mail I get for trying to offer resources to others. The point is, think for yourself. Model yourself after someone you truly admire. You don't want to have to explain why you never used your mind and heart and soul, do you?
You and your beliefs are dead wrong.
Michelle
I'm sorry sir, but you don't kno what you are talking about, when you talk about Jehovah's Witnesses, or know anything about Gods name.
Cat
(upon clearing up the gender confusion and asking for expansion...)
I'm sorry Miss
What makes me think you don't is the fact that all the proof is there plain for you to see. A person who was (and I'm not talking about someone who just fallowed mommy and daddy to the meetings and didn't hear a thing said) a Witness would know all about yhwh and the tetragramitin, they would also know that ehat you are talking about. they would also know that even the outside world, full of scholars and doctors in the field of the bible have to admit and do with out hesitation say, that Jehovah is gods name, coming from the Greek YHWH. It is something that is carved in hundreds of temples and old churches around the world, not just something Jehovah's people believe. I would not call you anything close to an expert. And no apparently you do not know ! what you are talking about.
Cat
(comment: Ummm, ok. Again, not a "Miss" either, very married and not as young as I used to be. Now. I wouldn't call myself an expert, but I do have some nuggets from time to time. I may be mistaken, but if so, I can be educated by better information. Here is what I understand on this topic at this point. YHWH isn't from the Greek, it's from the Hebrew - makes sense, since YHWH is the god of Abraham. The notation system of YHWH does not indicate which vowel sounds are to be used, and in fact this knowledge was kept secret. No one now on earth (at least, that anyone knows of) knows how it is to be pronounced. Only the priests of the temple ever said it in the "holiest of holies," the most sacred space in the temple, and when the temple was destroyed and the Levite priesthood ended, the knowledge was lost. It is bordering on sacrilege to even attempt to pronounce it. If you do not believe me, oh yes, please double check. In any case, Jehovah would very clearly be an awkward english translation - although I'm not sure exactly why we tend to change Y sounds into J sounds (a similar thing happens with "Jesus" as a translated name). A rabbi and scholar once told me that you could try all sorts of ways to say YHWH - he would say Yah-HO-ah-HAH! I'm sure you have also heard people say it as "Yahweh" which is probably a closer guess. As for what scholars and doctors (and archaeologists, and linguists, and so many others) might believe in the "outside world," you could try reading some of them to find out. How very insulting and hateful to assume that I only followed my parents and didn't listen? How could anyone sit through at least four hours a week of idiotic repetition and not pick up something - even a stone couldn't help it, a fact that our politicians and corporations rely on. Anyway, that's a bare minimum - and I've always, whatever else, been an attentive student. I hope that your god forgives you for your lack of love and compassion. He is not known for forgiveness - imagine worshipping a god that thinks that it is "good news" to kill off most of the world's population. You all sit there smugly celebrating that you will be the survivors, the "remnant of Israel" - that takes a lot of scripture twisting for a group that didn't exist before the 1800's. If you were an advanced spiritual being (which I'm not saying I am, by any means), you might, like certain biblical heroes, argue and confront and fight with such a god to save every last one. Perhaps, rather, the apocalypse is ongoing... In any case, you know nothing of me or my story, and your response simply highlights that your religion does not embody any of the fruits of the spirit (1 Cor 13) that you so often use to judge others. I pray for that you grow in love.. and for myself that I am less annoyed and hurt at such responses as time goes on.)
you , i'm sorry, but you making a laughing stock of the creator of existance Damien
(comment: At least I don't trade on that stock. Seriously, if there is a creator of existence, that creator endowed us with a sense of humor, and it serves a useful purpose on occasion. In my case, it is helpful to draw a distinct line between human foibles and pretensions and an authentic quest for meaning in religion.)
I don't like the JW's, as I'm a real born again Christian; but I find your religious views to have nothing to do with religion or spiritual matters at all. Your view there is really about nature and yourself, nothing about religion. I know about religion pretty good. If you would like some help, just let me know. I also have a lot of the word of God on my web site that has helped other people online if you just want to see that instead. May God bless you. Amen. Patrick
(comment: Religion is all about relationship, self to self, self to others, self to God, and the betweenness that perhaps creates a new thing. That is why is takes two or more gathered in someone's name for holy presence. Nature also exists in circles of relationship, in networks of interconnectivity and complexity. Yes, there is a lot about myself and nature, because I cannot speak with authority about constructive community (never having experienced it for any length of time). That is my limit of helpfulness to others. But I can just highlight things that have helped me, which I've done. The emphasis on selfhood is intended as a corrective - when you've been held in thrall by an organization that hopes to completely direct you, it is helpful to listen to what might come from inside you, to your own conscience, to the feel of what your own path might yet still be. I have studied religion most of my life, but I think that, for me at least, the questioning itself is really more of a path than a set of beliefs to make me comfortable and secure and relieve me of hard decisions. Others will have a different view. I thank you for your offer of help and for your blessing. Although you have misunderstood my intent and my words, this tells me that you mean well.)
i've been thinking about it and your right. this BIG GOD you talk about sounds good. now i can go to the casino, cheat on (my wife) if the opportunity arises, get drunk and most importantly smoke! out with all these restrictive rules! i'm free! BIG GOD seems like he or she just leaves everything up to me to decide. correct me if i'm wrong, but BIG GOD can be anything i want him to be. here i am, all this time wanting to know God whoever he was and wanting to do whatever he requires even if it's difficult and my imperfect heart leads me the other way. how foolish! all i had to do was invent my own god. you've already started me on my way, all i have to do is tweak BIG GOD a little and i think it will be a great fit for me. it's been great for you- no door to door, no wifely submission, actually no submission to anything if you don't want to. wow! no more meetings, suits, preaching, bible reading, the list is endless. of course, i'll still wonder why BIG GOD made the world the way it is, the horrible suffering, injustice, sickness and death. so what! things are pretty good for me. i feel good, my family is great and i have a job and a home. and now with all these rules, regulations and demands on my time lifted, i can feel free to make as much money as possible and upgrade, upgrade UPGRADE!! all this thanks to BIG GOD and his/her prophetess. seriously (deleted name), you're entitled to believe what you want to. but God is what he is, even though we might not like some of what he is. you can make a personal god if you want, but you miss out on knowing the creator of the universe. without humility you'll never know God. "humble yourselves, therefore, under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time". (1 peter 5:6).
Jeff (my childhood friend)
(comment: No, big god is a god of love and of ethics - there are rules, but not necessarily all the rules of JWS. I know that you don't really mean you would do all these things if relieved of your view of God, I know you well enough to know that your actions and beliefs come from the right places. But sometimes I feel that JWs miss out on so much, religiously speaking and just as human beings, because they have forgotten the very content of the happy message they want to spread...so much focus on the rules and hours, and not so much on compassion, forgiveness, and God's love. So much fear of other people, so much direction by fear in all ways. I just hope that your faith will someday inform you, which I believe it must if you believe in the biblical God, that your loyalty is properly directed to God, and to each other, and to those you are instructed to love, the brotherly and sisterly love toward the goodness in others - even the tax collectors and the harlots and the developers and the atheists and all those other neighbors. You do a great job of inclusiveness within the group, but it rarely seeps out. There is nothing in the bible that says loyalty to a world organization is something that is pleasing to God. Even the early christians were different from one another, not under the same organizational umbrella, but with many leaders - and some of them women. What I cannot compromise on is the idea of God and love being used to foster an attitude against freedom, against education and research, and ultimately against religion in its larger sense, and it really is a form of mind control from my perspective. I am intellectually opposed to any group that does not allow their people to ask questions freely and to debate points among us flawed humans, none of whom is perfect (not even your people in new york). My feelings are that as JWs are human, they are deserving of every ounce of love, compassion, and forgiveness that I can muster. My one long page of advice is aimed at helping people recover themselves and their goodness. So there is a distinction between my feelings for JWs themselves, and my feelings about the organization that literally controls their being. My feelings for the organization have mostly to do with sorrow for all of the people that have been hurt by them - a needless destructiveness. Remember Jesus' work on the sabbath. I can't help but feel that your soul has been captured by a small god and not the true god you yearn to worship - When you are tired of the rules of men, I hope that your strong belief in God will inform you. I cannot believe in a God that would cut friends off from one another - that's not the god of love, who raises compassion and agape higher than man's traditions. Just do me one favor, for the sake of our long friendship, a friendship that has endured all these years for a reason. Pray on it, pray for guidance from God. And whatever you truly feel that God wants you to do when you and (his wife - see below) have prayed together, I will accept and respect.)
We are a minority in a world that stresses independent thinking and rarely has the pure integrity to stand up for beliefs. Compromise is rampant and pervades every aspect of this world and manmade institutions. Not so with our organization. Imperfection and mistakes, yes, but compromise no. We believe, the Bible 100% as you know and the bible has told us that because of imperfection, we cannot direct our steps. Do you think that we never question anything, that we are like drones or like (in your words) brainwashed? We trust in God that He is wiser and more farsighted than we could ever be. And acknowledging that fact, even if opposing thoughts were to creep in, again we go back to the basic fact that God knows best. This may seem naive to you, but really I think that it takes a stronger person to acknowledge this and take that leap of faith and trust in God. Yes, we preach agape-principled love, not love based purely on emotion and personal ideas.
Lisa
(comment: This is probably the best critic right here. God wants you to use your mind and your unique independent thinking - then you can build your faith, not simply repress your own insights. Faith that cannot be doubted isn't faith - true faith is what survives the greatest doubts. Yes, of course, trust in God, but what God? Tell me about this God - the JWs seem to rely very heavily on notions of God the destroyer, God the rule-maker, God the King or Organization-maker. If she were really trusting in God, this might be very persuasive. Unfortunately, what she is really saying is that in our human imperfection we have to rely upon the direction of "our organization" and its own imperfection rather than on God. This organization has a very long history of compromise, in fact, which is described as the gradual enlightment from God as we approach the end days - the "new light" or doctrine change, that God opens up to the living board of directors, all assumed to be of the 144,000 elect, although many JWS don't know their names, and all the publications escape accountability by leaving out bylines. As for believing the bible 100%, that's all a matter of perspective, translation, and interpretation - all of which are done by humans, and sometimes not very well. Even the idea of doctrine of divine inspiration has its own history and came rather late. Who does the choosing for what, exactly, is believed? The "organization" of course. There is actually no trust whatsoever in a lifetime religious quest, or even an individual relationship with a personal God. That's why I asked them to pray on it, which they didn't. And yet, I feel that there is something very strong in this criticism - she feels the worth of the leap of faith, and has only mistaken its true object. The JWs believe themselves that those who mislead others away from faith are "bloodguilty." I wonder how many perceive the irony?)
