Time for Public Debates

Time for Public Debates

The Democratic Party is asking that people sign a letter to be sent to the Lamar billboard company.

Billboard Company Rejects Your Ads

Despite a signed contract, Lamar Advertising has decided to reject the billboards that were to be placed outside of Rep. Jean Schmidt’s office in Portsmouth, Ohio. By rejecting these ads, Lamar has limited millions of Democrats’ right to be heard. You can put pressure on Lamar to support free speech by signing on to the letter from the DNC’s General Council, Joe Sandler.

Lamar reneged, saying it was “too negative.”

(In case you missed it, Jean Schmidt was the one who said “I received a call from Col. Danny Bubp. He also asked me to send Congressman Murtha a message, that cowards cut and run, Marines never do.” They claim they weren’t calling him a coward, but the implication is clear, especially if you saw the video. Schmidt’s face was a sight to behold.)

What’s missing here is an explanation of what happened between the approval and the refusal:

“This rejection came more than 24 hours after the DNC had signed a contract with Lamar and 48 hours after they had accepted the artwork for the billboards you helped pay to put up.”

Since Lamar had accepted the artwork already, this suggests intervention – either from inside or outside the company. Any likely suspects? Perhaps that could be a more fruitful focus at this point, if they really want to continue.

There is a part of me that thinks the Democrats are wasting energy and money with these sorts of billboards, especially for such a fleeting thing.

The woman was ordered to say what she did (she has admitted that), why not call attention to the puppetmasters? Why is someone telling her to send Murtha a message in the first place? Who might have suggested it to him? What kind of coordination on message might there have been behind the scenes?

Or, why not focus on something else entirely, perhaps something more productive than simple slams on one comment, no matter how inappropriate or insulting it might have been. I feel that Murtha is perfectly able to take care of himself on this one. Offer support – and start contributing other ideas. We certainly have no lack of pressing concerns.

We went into Iraq under a cloud of misrepresentations and doctored information. We have killed thousands of civilians. We have made life even worse for many of those living in Iraq, and we have participated in and allowed violations of international law. So here we are, with all the different groups at odds with one another no matter what we do, and now we have to deal with Iran (who has always been more of a threat than Iraq anyway). It’s a bad situation, no matter what the Bush administration would like Americans to believe.

So what do we do? I think what we do is have very public, very open debates – with multiple perspectives represented. I think that there should be open forums, question and answer press conferences.

This administration is no less answerable to us than any other. Let there be debates in the form that they do for the elections – every night for two hours on network television. One question for the two hours – several people chosen to debate.

How about some from each of the warring groups in Iraq. Let the pundits vote on their own pundit representatives for the right and the left and the center. Bush and Cheney are mandatory, perhaps also Rice and Rumsfeld- let Democrats vote on representatives for their views. But get some real face-to-face debates going! Let’s really educate the American people on what is actually happening here. Let’s get some tough questions debated and answered.

All this lowest common denominator propaganda is making everything much worse. The American people need more than what we are getting! We need to hear the arguments in order to responsibly and knowledgably support or oppose the different viewpoints. We need to hear back and forth, where each side has to really answer, not sidestep the question. If they don’t want to answer, they have to say “pass.” Our representatives are involved in a system that is filled with so much corruption – it’s time to bring democracy back into action.

The media needs to do this for free. It is part of their civic responsibility in return for use of the public airwaves.

And I mean every station, on network and cable – nothing else on but this, you get me?

Do we have to wait 50 years to understand just what we are doing here?

9 thoughts on “Time for Public Debates

  1. I am glad that Lamar is standing up and saying enough negativity is enough and they refuse to sell billboard space to liberal groups thta are just attempting to slam this Representative. The company has the right to refuse to put up a ad on their billboard that they want to. The Democrats are attempting to force this company by having liberals pressure them by sending letters demanding they put up an ad they don’t want to.

    I think that is ridiculous!

  2. I agree with you about a company being able to do what business they choose to do. They might have done it before approving the ad, though. This is just breach of contract, which is not an honorable business practice in anyone’s book.

    Anyway – no comment on the idea of public debates?

  3. I say we do need debate on the subject of Iraq, but we first need to end the lies and name calling by the left before we can have a debate. You continue to tell lies about the President and his administration. There has never been a single shred of proof that President Bush or a member of his administration doctored any of the intelligence or asked anyone in the CIA to doctor intelligence. There has been numerous inquiries by congress into this matter and it has never shown that it occurred. So unless you have evidence that they haven’t seen then you are just continuing the lies being told by the Democrats and liberal biased MSM.

    I have one question; Where are you getting your information that you put in the one paragraph that you listed a litany of accusations against President Bush and his policies?

    I applaud your sticking to your guns on the topic, but as you know I totally disagree with it. 🙂

  4. I think it is pretty hard to ignore lies of this magnitude or their effect on the American people and our future in the world. It’s not slander if it’s accurate, and I truly believe it is accurate.

    Bush brazenly misrepresented intelligence data and relied on dishonest arguments to whip up support for war with Iraq. He KNEW, he CHOSE. Bolton and others worked for him to promote the “intelligence” he wanted to hear. You can find some whistleblowers – and see their reward. Dick Cheney and (Irv) Scooter Libby, as Murray Waas reported in National Journal, specifically refused to provide information to Congress about how they used prewar intelligence. A convicted embezzler in Jordan and accused spy for Iran, Chalabi helped mastermind the campaign of deception necessary to fool America, with the help of Bush’s neocon advisers as well as then-Times reporter Judith Miller. They set up Colin Powell with this WMD “intelligence” – you can read any of his statements on the matter – and talked of “mushroom clouds” to activate fear and submission to the matter. Vice President Dick Cheney presented the theory of a Prague meeting of Mohamed Atta with the head of the Iraqi secret service as a fact when even the most supportive analysts considered it highly dubious. When Joe Wilson came back with his analysis of the Niger yellowcake – well, you see what happened then.

    On July 23, 2002, the head of British intelligence advised Prime Minister Tony Blair, in the then-secret Downing Street Memo, that “military action was now seen as inevitable” and that “intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy.” Bush had also authorized the transfer of $700 million from Afghanistan war funds to prepare for an invasion of Iraq. At the time, Bush insisted he wanted peace.

    Just recently Bush, speaking to a military audience on Veterans Day, announced that those who suggest the Administration “manipulated the intelligence” are “fully aware that a bipartisan Senate investigation found no evidence of political pressure to change the intelligence community’s judgments.” He neglected to mention that they were barred from doing so at this stage of the investigation. The Senate Select Committee on Intelligence has not completed Phase II of its investigation, which was to be an analysis of whether the Administration manipulated or misrepresented prewar intelligence. The focus of Phase II was to determine whether the Administration misrepresented the information it received about Iraq from intelligence agencies. Resolutions of inquiry have been introduced (Reps Lee and Kucinich) demanding that the Administration produce key information about its decision-making but of course they are blocked.

    The President’s deceit is not only an abuse of power; it is a federal crime. Specifically, it is a violation of Title 18, United States Code, Section 371, which prohibits conspiracies to defraud the United States.

    Bush made numerous false statements about the provisions and effects of his super-sized tax cuts which mostly benefit the rich – while taking away services for the middle class, blue collar, and poor. He even fooled Kennedy with the lies surrounding the “No Child Left Behind” act – sounds like a good thing – then didn’t allow for the budget to meet the requirements. Get credit, defund. Way to destroy the public school system. If that’s the aim, and most of the right-wing seem to agree that it is – then that’s a lie too.

    He offered disingenuous and misleading explanations about the 9/11 attacks, the war on terrorism, and homeland security – for example, continuing to talk about IRAQ and 9/11 in the same breath as though they were related, blocking the 9/11 commission at every step, etc.

    Lied about his connections—and those of his administration—to corporate crooks, and granted no-bid contracts to buddies, who in turn have defrauded us. His crony appointments are not only corrupt, but as we saw with Katrina sometimes deadly.

    Bush presented deceptive claims to sell controversial policies on the environment, stem cell research, missile defense, abortion, energy, Social Security, health care, education, and other crucial issues – the Organization of Concerned Scientists (among other groups) have documented much of this rather well. But I think it’s really about the manipulation of the religious right by the empire mongers. It’s not about “morality” – it’s about money and power. But hey, whatever brings in the votes.

    Bush’s administation has been involved in illegal propaganda here and abroad – deceit deceit.

    Bush dishonestly claimed to be a positive campaigner while engaging in deceitful and down-and-dirty Rove-conceived tactics such as whisper campaigns and slander. Ann Richards, McCain, Kerry, etc.

    I recommend you read up on the history of the deliberate undermining of the Geneva conventions – play close attention to the legal attention and rewriting, the disappearances, the fall guys (girls), the secret prisons, etc. Sound like your Dad’s USA?

    It goes on and on – and everything is out there – everything is transparent. No one will be able to say “we didn’t know.” We know.

    So we disagree mightily, mightily. However, the very fact that bloggers like you and I even bother exchanging any comments at all actually gives me a little bit of hope for the future.

    My question is – how can anyone believe him? Why do you believe him Jon? I really want to know.

    I think history will show that your confidence in this President is misguided – but I take no pleasure in that. What concerns me is that, as a nation, we are so easily deceived, and on so many fronts.

    I do agree with your larger point, that the debate we need to have on Iraq and what we’re going to do at this point is a more pressing concern. These concerns are interrelated, of course, but at this point it doesn’t matter quite so much how we got into this (although all over the world it is one of the most pressing issues concerning the US) as how we handle things now.

    I want to see them have to debate it out and get to brass tacks. I’m sick of all the posturing on both sides.

  5. Heidi,

    I believe him because he hasn’t lied to me or anyone else for that matter. Until you can prove that he lied I will continue to believe him. I believe history will bare out that President BUsh had the courage to stand up to all of his detractors and made the right move to go in and forcibly remove Saddam from power so Iraq can control their own destiny.

    If any of the lies that have been told about President Bush he would have been referred for impeachment by now and since he hasn’t it shows me that all of this nonsense bluster by the liberals and Democrats have zero merit.

    It isn’t illegal to have stories published in Iraq newspapers that are true. All thta is being done is to counter act the lies being spread by Al-Qaida in the Iraqi media. What makes you think it is illegal?

    By the way, thanks for those links you included in your comment on my blog. They are very interesting, but it really doesn’t change anything in my opinion.

  6. Well, I guess we’ll just have to see what happens as the investigations continue – assuming they are allowed to continue. If the Republicans didn’t have a majority, he would indeed have been referred to impeachment. But what’s the point until then?

    Stories were planted under assumed identites, claiming to be viewpoints from citizens of Iraq. It may not be illegal, but it’s a lie according to most ethical and religious systems.

    Domestic (US) covert propaganda has been revealed through independent investigations by at least three separate federal agencies – using our tax dollars. That IS illegal.

    White House Paid Commentator to Promote Law, USA Today, (Jan. 7, 2005).
    U.S. Government Accountability Office, Office of National Drug Control Policy – Video News Release (Jan. 4, 2005) (GAO/B-303495).
    U.S. Government Accountability Office, Department of Health and Human Services, Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services – Video News Releases (May 19, 2004) (GAO/B-302710).

    Do you really believe this is about the people of Iraq? The bases on the oil lines are just coincidental?

    How about this? In 2020 – let’s agree to both post a reconsideration of the Iraq War issue.

  7. Heidi,

    The Democrats haven’t even asked for the proceeding on Impeachment so that doesn’t hold water. The stories are not lies they are all true and it really doesn’t matter how they are diseminated to the Iraqi people. It is far better than the lies that are printed in our MSM with very little truth by the liberals and Democrats.

    If the stories are true than it isn’t a lie. As far as the issue of paying a consulting firm to contract the Conservative Talk show host to promote the No Child Left Behind program was a mistake that was setup by the Department of Education and not President Bush directly, but as usual liberals want to act like Bush did it himself. The funny thing is that there is actually no record that the man actaully did any of the on air promoting in the first place.

    In my humble opinion this is a non-issue and it really matters very little. I don’t care if any of it has to do with oil in Iraq, i get so sick and tired of hearing that anything that is reported about the Middle East it is only about oil. Just like anytime Haliburton is mentioned it is automatically a negative about Dick Cheney even though he severed all ties with the company when he became the VP. But just because he was a former CEO and he was receiving contractual payments from Haliburton all the haters came out of the woodwork and claimed all kinds of sinister dealings were being made.

    I believe it whole heartedly that this all about the people of Iraq and to think otherwise is truly misguided.

    That is a bit far in the future, but I believe that when the history books are written to reflect discussion about the War in Iraq and the rest of the Middle East it will not contain any of the negativity that has been put forth my the liberal biased MSM, Democrats and Bush Haters. 🙂

  8. Jon –

    Well, we clearly have a very different set of standards. I wonder – were you so vigorous in the defense of Clinton? Did you also talk about the obvious “Clinton-haters” with this kind of derision? I agree that hating someone is different than condemning their actions. I condemn Bush’s policies – I don’t think he is a good person at all, but what I completely judge as negative is what he and his administration have done to this country and our honor and our standing in the world. Have you travelled much?

    I look forward to our mutual reassessment in December 2020. I will hold you to our revisiting of the issue. I am very confident about how this time will be judged by our own people when all the facts are better known.

  9. No, I am one of those Clinton haters. I think it is fine to condemn his policies, but the personal attacks aren’t necessary. I have traveled to many places overseas in the Western Pacific ( Phillipines, Hong Kong, Japan and Persian Gulf during the first Gulf War). I don’t think we have a different standard, but I put my trust in the President until I am given a reason not to. Now President Clinton was proven guilty of lying to a grand jury and he was Impeached but not removed from office and there for he doesn’t deserve to be trusted. If it is proven that he did what all of his detractors are saying he did then I will change my opinion of him, but not until that happens.

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