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	<title>Comments on: Bait and Switch Crisis Pregnancy Centers</title>
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	<description>Contagious Thoughts, Mutating as Needed</description>
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		<title>By: VirusHead</title>
		<link>http://www.virushead.net/vhrandom/2006/07/20/bait-and-switch-crisis-pregnancy-centers/comment-page-1#comment-12176</link>
		<dc:creator>VirusHead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Jul 2006 16:46:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.virushead.net/vhrandom/2006/07/20/bait-and-switch-crisis-pregnancy-centers/#comment-12176</guid>
		<description>I had to code your links, Jane. The long urls break my page on the sidebar.

The first link is from a former abortionist who has since switched sides with equal extremism. Although a founder in 1969 of the National Association for the Repeal of Abortion Laws, he now offers a completely different view and is the producer of the &quot;Silent Scream&quot; video. His opinion is only one of many.

ProLife America isn&#039;t exactly a reasonable unbiased site. It&#039;s owned by Life Dynamics Inc. Here&#039;s a little bit of &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.womensenews.org/article.cfm/dyn/aid/1104/context/archive&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;information on them and the investigation you reference&lt;/a&gt;. The third link just references the second link - just read the link or Google &quot;Life Dynamics Inc.&quot;

If you&#039;re right about the involvement of right-wing &quot;religious&quot; voters participating in the peace protests, rallying for education and welfare, and so on, then I deeply apologize. I leave it to readers to decide for themselves, but hey - read the newspaper any old time you want. Looks like they&#039;re pretty war-hungry to me. That&#039;s pro-death.

If you are against abortion, and you are against birth control and sex education programs, then what do you propose to do to lower abortion rates? Teenage pregnancies are soaring once again under these policies you champion. I guess you can make it illegal, or bar availability state by state, no matter what the circumstances. We all know that abortions won&#039;t stop, they will just be illegal and more dangerous. Are you planning to take care of the children of such unions as I described? Are you willing to support girls and women who have children they can&#039;t afford? Are you going to pay for the medical expenses for the babies? Are you going to allow the grandparents who might be raising them to count as their family for insurance purposes? The &quot;alternative&quot; family isn&#039;t really very popular for the right. 

Acknowledging that sex is part of some loving relationships is reality. What you are proposing is denial and fantasy. I&#039;m sorry the world isn&#039;t the way it&#039;s pictured in the little pamphlets of Christmas past. Sure, teach your children all the things you say. Hope that no-one in your community is raped. Encourage everyone to think things through for themselves on these issues.

But don&#039;t tell other women what to do. Abortions are legal in America. If you don&#039;t need one or want one, don&#039;t have one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had to code your links, Jane. The long urls break my page on the sidebar.</p>
<p>The first link is from a former abortionist who has since switched sides with equal extremism. Although a founder in 1969 of the National Association for the Repeal of Abortion Laws, he now offers a completely different view and is the producer of the &#8220;Silent Scream&#8221; video. His opinion is only one of many.</p>
<p>ProLife America isn&#8217;t exactly a reasonable unbiased site. It&#8217;s owned by Life Dynamics Inc. Here&#8217;s a little bit of <a href="http://www.womensenews.org/article.cfm/dyn/aid/1104/context/archive" rel="nofollow">information on them and the investigation you reference</a>. The third link just references the second link &#8211; just read the link or Google &#8220;Life Dynamics Inc.&#8221;</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re right about the involvement of right-wing &#8220;religious&#8221; voters participating in the peace protests, rallying for education and welfare, and so on, then I deeply apologize. I leave it to readers to decide for themselves, but hey &#8211; read the newspaper any old time you want. Looks like they&#8217;re pretty war-hungry to me. That&#8217;s pro-death.</p>
<p>If you are against abortion, and you are against birth control and sex education programs, then what do you propose to do to lower abortion rates? Teenage pregnancies are soaring once again under these policies you champion. I guess you can make it illegal, or bar availability state by state, no matter what the circumstances. We all know that abortions won&#8217;t stop, they will just be illegal and more dangerous. Are you planning to take care of the children of such unions as I described? Are you willing to support girls and women who have children they can&#8217;t afford? Are you going to pay for the medical expenses for the babies? Are you going to allow the grandparents who might be raising them to count as their family for insurance purposes? The &#8220;alternative&#8221; family isn&#8217;t really very popular for the right. </p>
<p>Acknowledging that sex is part of some loving relationships is reality. What you are proposing is denial and fantasy. I&#8217;m sorry the world isn&#8217;t the way it&#8217;s pictured in the little pamphlets of Christmas past. Sure, teach your children all the things you say. Hope that no-one in your community is raped. Encourage everyone to think things through for themselves on these issues.</p>
<p>But don&#8217;t tell other women what to do. Abortions are legal in America. If you don&#8217;t need one or want one, don&#8217;t have one.</p>
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		<title>By: Jane Lake</title>
		<link>http://www.virushead.net/vhrandom/2006/07/20/bait-and-switch-crisis-pregnancy-centers/comment-page-1#comment-12174</link>
		<dc:creator>Jane Lake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Jul 2006 15:37:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.virushead.net/vhrandom/2006/07/20/bait-and-switch-crisis-pregnancy-centers/#comment-12174</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.aboutabortions.com/Confess.html&quot;&gt;About Abortions&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://prolifeamerica.com/AG_investigation_of_abortion_clinics.cfm&quot;&gt;ProLife America&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.pphurtsgirls.org/&quot;&gt;PPHurtsGirls&lt;/a&gt;

The number of abortions far exceed deaths by poverty and war. That is why there is this focus. True pro-lifers are against abortion, the death penalty, euthanasia, etc. Exceptions are used to point fingers and say aha!, you are a hypocrite.

The &quot;religious right&quot; as you call it is against birth control because much of birth control is either an abortifacient, high failure rates which result in abortions, and undermines a loving relationship by focusing it on sexual intercourse. There are many forms of sex that don&#039;t result in pregnancy, and would not be considered abstinence.

Life is precious whether it lasts a week or a hundred years, or whether it is happy or tragic.The classic story is that Beethoven&#039;s mother would have aborted if it was available, and robbed the world of one of the greatest .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.aboutabortions.com/Confess.html">About Abortions</a><br />
<a href="http://prolifeamerica.com/AG_investigation_of_abortion_clinics.cfm">ProLife America</a><br />
<a href="http://www.pphurtsgirls.org/">PPHurtsGirls</a></p>
<p>The number of abortions far exceed deaths by poverty and war. That is why there is this focus. True pro-lifers are against abortion, the death penalty, euthanasia, etc. Exceptions are used to point fingers and say aha!, you are a hypocrite.</p>
<p>The &#8220;religious right&#8221; as you call it is against birth control because much of birth control is either an abortifacient, high failure rates which result in abortions, and undermines a loving relationship by focusing it on sexual intercourse. There are many forms of sex that don&#8217;t result in pregnancy, and would not be considered abstinence.</p>
<p>Life is precious whether it lasts a week or a hundred years, or whether it is happy or tragic.The classic story is that Beethoven&#8217;s mother would have aborted if it was available, and robbed the world of one of the greatest .</p>
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		<title>By: VirusHead</title>
		<link>http://www.virushead.net/vhrandom/2006/07/20/bait-and-switch-crisis-pregnancy-centers/comment-page-1#comment-12132</link>
		<dc:creator>VirusHead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Jul 2006 18:42:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.virushead.net/vhrandom/2006/07/20/bait-and-switch-crisis-pregnancy-centers/#comment-12132</guid>
		<description>Can you point me to a source for this investigation? These accusations make no sense to me. 

On testing, it&#039;s usually those who would never consider an abortion who don&#039;t want to test. I&#039;ve had friends with high-risk pregnancies who rejected any testing because it wouldn&#039;t matter to the outcome. Why test if you wouldn&#039;t consider an abortion? - that&#039;s the question I hear. I would want to know everything I could regardless of my decision, but that&#039;s me. 

I&#039;ve not heard of anyone &quot;recommending&quot; an abortion to a woman (at least not to anyone who wasn&#039;t in danger fom the pregnancy itself), but I have heard of doctors spelling out the medical problems. The risks would differ with the history and medical condition of the woman as well as the viability of the fetus. The D&amp;C procedure is also done therapeutically, as in the case of a miscarriage or excessive menstrual bleeding.  Economic, age, stability, and other kinds of problems all factor in for the woman&#039;s decision, but the medical profession doesn&#039;t participate in that.

I&#039;m not sure that PAS is a real &quot;syndrome&quot; but let&#039;s assume it is. Yes, there can be psychological effects - this is a tough kind of decision, not made lightly! I would hope that women would have others to talk to than their medical provider. Some women can have abortions and deeply regret doing so, others can have babies and feel the same way. Some change their mind about what they wanted, or got pressured into not having enough of a say in the decision. It&#039;s an emotional zone, and I think most women realize that. 

Not sure what you mean by &quot;scare tactics.&quot; Like what? Again, I associate this with the anti-abortion people. Domestic terrorism, big posters and intimidation at clinics, community stigma and rejection, inaccurate medical information intended to dissuade women from having an abortion (but not providing resources for someone who has the baby) - now these are scare tactics.

On incest and rape, oh please! Frist&#039;s &quot;Child Custody Protection Act&quot; may be voted on tonight. That would really put underage victims of rape and incest in danger, making it a federal crime for anybody than a parent (even grandparent, aunt or religious counselor) to accompany a young woman for abortion care in another state. The young women seeking help because of violence or abuse at home would be forced to be accompanied by their abuser! To me, that kind of behavior is more typical of the rights of the anti-abortion right. Of course, if you take a look at who actually gets abortions in America, you might be surprised.

I think that if you&#039;ve taken a good hard look at some of the seamier edges of human experience, you tend to see abortion a little differently. I am glad that I have never had an abortion, and was never in a situation to have had to make that decision. I grieve the loss of two pregnancies, one of which (a ruptured ectopic) nearly killed me too. But if I were a 14 year old meth addict impregnated by my father or stepfather or brother or uncle, I think I&#039;d have an abortion. If my baby was going to live for three months under enormous inescapable pain and then die, I would probably have the abortion. If I were raped in middle school, I think I&#039;d want an abortion. If my parents were in jail or missing, if I was in foster care, if I&#039;d already had four babies and we were broke, I might consider an abortion. To me, the longer into the pregnancy it goes, the more problematic it is, so I&#039;m against some of the delaying tactics. Just my own opinion.

If the so-called &quot;religious right&quot; wants to reduce abortions, why would they also be against birth control, anti-poverty and pro-education programs, and so on, which reduce abortion rates? Abstinence-only programs don&#039;t work. Research it and look what we&#039;ve done to women all over the world with this nonsense. There are girls who are denial - in denial while they are having sex, while they are pregnant. Ask yourself how and why a baby ends up in a dumpster. 

If you want solutions, you really have to look at the reality of the problems. Mass hysteria on this issue overlooks the basic questions - why would someone feel they needed to have an abortion? Under what conditions might the numbers of women in those kinds of circumstances be reduced? There were less abortions under the Clinton policies than under those of Bush. 

If it&#039;s about life, where are the other pro-life programs?

Where are the pro-lifers in the peace movement, or on environmental issues, consumer safety, education? Why are so many people against abortion also for the death penalty?  

These are difficult issues, that&#039;s why they are controversial - and there are a lot of language games on both sides because of that. But my feeling is that Roe v Wade was about the best we could do on a compromise. 

I trust women, in consultation with their doctors and their support networks and their own beliefs, to make that decision, either way. And it pains me to see other women who&#039;ve been sucked into this manipulation. 

Instead of discussing the war and the economy and the energy situation and all the other pressing dangers, we have been suckered into focusing on abortion and the flag and gay marriage. It&#039;s just stupid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can you point me to a source for this investigation? These accusations make no sense to me. </p>
<p>On testing, it&#8217;s usually those who would never consider an abortion who don&#8217;t want to test. I&#8217;ve had friends with high-risk pregnancies who rejected any testing because it wouldn&#8217;t matter to the outcome. Why test if you wouldn&#8217;t consider an abortion? &#8211; that&#8217;s the question I hear. I would want to know everything I could regardless of my decision, but that&#8217;s me. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve not heard of anyone &#8220;recommending&#8221; an abortion to a woman (at least not to anyone who wasn&#8217;t in danger fom the pregnancy itself), but I have heard of doctors spelling out the medical problems. The risks would differ with the history and medical condition of the woman as well as the viability of the fetus. The D&#038;C procedure is also done therapeutically, as in the case of a miscarriage or excessive menstrual bleeding.  Economic, age, stability, and other kinds of problems all factor in for the woman&#8217;s decision, but the medical profession doesn&#8217;t participate in that.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure that PAS is a real &#8220;syndrome&#8221; but let&#8217;s assume it is. Yes, there can be psychological effects &#8211; this is a tough kind of decision, not made lightly! I would hope that women would have others to talk to than their medical provider. Some women can have abortions and deeply regret doing so, others can have babies and feel the same way. Some change their mind about what they wanted, or got pressured into not having enough of a say in the decision. It&#8217;s an emotional zone, and I think most women realize that. </p>
<p>Not sure what you mean by &#8220;scare tactics.&#8221; Like what? Again, I associate this with the anti-abortion people. Domestic terrorism, big posters and intimidation at clinics, community stigma and rejection, inaccurate medical information intended to dissuade women from having an abortion (but not providing resources for someone who has the baby) &#8211; now these are scare tactics.</p>
<p>On incest and rape, oh please! Frist&#8217;s &#8220;Child Custody Protection Act&#8221; may be voted on tonight. That would really put underage victims of rape and incest in danger, making it a federal crime for anybody than a parent (even grandparent, aunt or religious counselor) to accompany a young woman for abortion care in another state. The young women seeking help because of violence or abuse at home would be forced to be accompanied by their abuser! To me, that kind of behavior is more typical of the rights of the anti-abortion right. Of course, if you take a look at who actually gets abortions in America, you might be surprised.</p>
<p>I think that if you&#8217;ve taken a good hard look at some of the seamier edges of human experience, you tend to see abortion a little differently. I am glad that I have never had an abortion, and was never in a situation to have had to make that decision. I grieve the loss of two pregnancies, one of which (a ruptured ectopic) nearly killed me too. But if I were a 14 year old meth addict impregnated by my father or stepfather or brother or uncle, I think I&#8217;d have an abortion. If my baby was going to live for three months under enormous inescapable pain and then die, I would probably have the abortion. If I were raped in middle school, I think I&#8217;d want an abortion. If my parents were in jail or missing, if I was in foster care, if I&#8217;d already had four babies and we were broke, I might consider an abortion. To me, the longer into the pregnancy it goes, the more problematic it is, so I&#8217;m against some of the delaying tactics. Just my own opinion.</p>
<p>If the so-called &#8220;religious right&#8221; wants to reduce abortions, why would they also be against birth control, anti-poverty and pro-education programs, and so on, which reduce abortion rates? Abstinence-only programs don&#8217;t work. Research it and look what we&#8217;ve done to women all over the world with this nonsense. There are girls who are denial &#8211; in denial while they are having sex, while they are pregnant. Ask yourself how and why a baby ends up in a dumpster. </p>
<p>If you want solutions, you really have to look at the reality of the problems. Mass hysteria on this issue overlooks the basic questions &#8211; why would someone feel they needed to have an abortion? Under what conditions might the numbers of women in those kinds of circumstances be reduced? There were less abortions under the Clinton policies than under those of Bush. </p>
<p>If it&#8217;s about life, where are the other pro-life programs?</p>
<p>Where are the pro-lifers in the peace movement, or on environmental issues, consumer safety, education? Why are so many people against abortion also for the death penalty?  </p>
<p>These are difficult issues, that&#8217;s why they are controversial &#8211; and there are a lot of language games on both sides because of that. But my feeling is that Roe v Wade was about the best we could do on a compromise. </p>
<p>I trust women, in consultation with their doctors and their support networks and their own beliefs, to make that decision, either way. And it pains me to see other women who&#8217;ve been sucked into this manipulation. </p>
<p>Instead of discussing the war and the economy and the energy situation and all the other pressing dangers, we have been suckered into focusing on abortion and the flag and gay marriage. It&#8217;s just stupid.</p>
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		<title>By: Jane Lake</title>
		<link>http://www.virushead.net/vhrandom/2006/07/20/bait-and-switch-crisis-pregnancy-centers/comment-page-1#comment-12118</link>
		<dc:creator>Jane Lake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Jul 2006 15:04:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.virushead.net/vhrandom/2006/07/20/bait-and-switch-crisis-pregnancy-centers/#comment-12118</guid>
		<description>1) Advising against having a sonogram
2) Making recommendations of an abortion
3) Scare tactics
4) Non reporting of incest and rape
5) Undermining the effects of post abortion syndrome
6) Minimizing the health risks of abortion</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1) Advising against having a sonogram<br />
2) Making recommendations of an abortion<br />
3) Scare tactics<br />
4) Non reporting of incest and rape<br />
5) Undermining the effects of post abortion syndrome<br />
6) Minimizing the health risks of abortion</p>
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		<title>By: VirusHead</title>
		<link>http://www.virushead.net/vhrandom/2006/07/20/bait-and-switch-crisis-pregnancy-centers/comment-page-1#comment-11953</link>
		<dc:creator>VirusHead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Jul 2006 16:58:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.virushead.net/vhrandom/2006/07/20/bait-and-switch-crisis-pregnancy-centers/#comment-11953</guid>
		<description>Jane - I&#039;m not clear what you think is also happening at abortion clinics - false advertising? 

Using knowingly inaccurate information to influence a decision? 

Luring women in under false pretenses?

Please clarify.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jane &#8211; I&#8217;m not clear what you think is also happening at abortion clinics &#8211; false advertising? </p>
<p>Using knowingly inaccurate information to influence a decision? </p>
<p>Luring women in under false pretenses?</p>
<p>Please clarify.</p>
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		<title>By: Jane Lake</title>
		<link>http://www.virushead.net/vhrandom/2006/07/20/bait-and-switch-crisis-pregnancy-centers/comment-page-1#comment-11940</link>
		<dc:creator>Jane Lake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Jul 2006 12:55:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.virushead.net/vhrandom/2006/07/20/bait-and-switch-crisis-pregnancy-centers/#comment-11940</guid>
		<description>Deception is bad, but the reality is that it happens at Planned Parenthood and other abortion clinics also, and they are currently being investigated as well. I fully agree that women should be properly informed, but let&#039;s clean up all bad apples, not just the ones that may help a political agenda.

Please note that the number of crisis centers in question is less than 1%, and the vast majority of them help women in a very positive way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Deception is bad, but the reality is that it happens at Planned Parenthood and other abortion clinics also, and they are currently being investigated as well. I fully agree that women should be properly informed, but let&#8217;s clean up all bad apples, not just the ones that may help a political agenda.</p>
<p>Please note that the number of crisis centers in question is less than 1%, and the vast majority of them help women in a very positive way.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony</title>
		<link>http://www.virushead.net/vhrandom/2006/07/20/bait-and-switch-crisis-pregnancy-centers/comment-page-1#comment-11939</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Jul 2006 12:48:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.virushead.net/vhrandom/2006/07/20/bait-and-switch-crisis-pregnancy-centers/#comment-11939</guid>
		<description>This bill is long overdue.  If you haven&#039;t seen the Frontline documentary, &quot;The Last Abortion Clinic,&quot; then you should really check it out.  It will make your blood boil.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/clinic/view/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This bill is long overdue.  If you haven&#8217;t seen the Frontline documentary, &#8220;The Last Abortion Clinic,&#8221; then you should really check it out.  It will make your blood boil.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/clinic/view/" rel="nofollow">http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/clinic/view/</a></p>
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