Comments on: JWs at My Door http://www.virushead.net/vhrandom/2007/06/12/jws-at-my-door Contagious Thoughts, Mutating as Needed Sun, 18 Oct 2009 18:07:23 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: VirusHead http://www.virushead.net/vhrandom/2007/06/12/jws-at-my-door/comment-page-1#comment-75685 VirusHead Sun, 08 Jul 2007 20:39:06 +0000 http://www.virushead.net/vhrandom/2007/06/12/jws-at-my-door/#comment-75685 I expanded on this a bit more in the other post you were commenting on. Take a look at the "homework" essays. I defer to the expertise of social analysts of different kinds on the mechanisms of totalitarian groups like the JWs, but if you read almost any analysis of authoritarian or totalitarian groups you will see elements that you recognize - demonization of outsiders, control by fear, shunning, social surveillance and reporting, even the changing internal language... I expanded on this a bit more in the other post you were commenting on. Take a look at the “homework” essays. I defer to the expertise of social analysts of different kinds on the mechanisms of totalitarian groups like the JWs, but if you read almost any analysis of authoritarian or totalitarian groups you will see elements that you recognize – demonization of outsiders, control by fear, shunning, social surveillance and reporting, even the changing internal language…

]]> By: traci http://www.virushead.net/vhrandom/2007/06/12/jws-at-my-door/comment-page-1#comment-75405 traci Fri, 15 Jun 2007 01:56:04 +0000 http://www.virushead.net/vhrandom/2007/06/12/jws-at-my-door/#comment-75405 I would like to say that when I submitted that last comment, there was MORE TO IT! I have no idea what internet abyss it flew off into but I swear it was there when I hit submit. I was hoping you could elaborate a bit on the 360-degree control mechanisms because I have such a tough time elaborating in an understandable manner when I try to talk about this *programming* issue. Now I feel like a total dork because I couldn't even submit the comment correctly! hehe I would like to say that when I submitted that last comment, there was MORE TO IT! I have no idea what internet abyss it flew off into but I swear it was there when I hit submit.

I was hoping you could elaborate a bit on the 360-degree control mechanisms because I have such a tough time elaborating in an understandable manner when I try to talk about this *programming* issue. Now I feel like a total dork because I couldn’t even submit the comment correctly! hehe

]]> By: traci http://www.virushead.net/vhrandom/2007/06/12/jws-at-my-door/comment-page-1#comment-75400 traci Thu, 14 Jun 2007 22:26:39 +0000 http://www.virushead.net/vhrandom/2007/06/12/jws-at-my-door/#comment-75400 >>>Anyway, the idea of brainwashing (although not inaccurate) doesn’t really capture the total control of members by the Watchtower, even over their families and friends. It’s not just a matter of beliefs and ideas. I also find that people have associations with the word “brainwashing” itself that work to make it less than precise for describing the set of 360-degree control mechanisms that operate and reinforce one another for JWs. >>>Anyway, the idea of brainwashing (although not inaccurate) doesn’t really capture the total control of members by the Watchtower, even over their families and friends. It’s not just a matter of beliefs and ideas.

I also find that people have associations with the word “brainwashing” itself that work to make it less than precise for describing the set of 360-degree control mechanisms that operate and reinforce one another for JWs.

]]> By: VirusHead http://www.virushead.net/vhrandom/2007/06/12/jws-at-my-door/comment-page-1#comment-75393 VirusHead Thu, 14 Jun 2007 17:33:37 +0000 http://www.virushead.net/vhrandom/2007/06/12/jws-at-my-door/#comment-75393 I have little to no confidence in "deprogramming." Sometimes "deprogrammers" a cure that's worse than the disease (to employ an already-overused metaphor). It may be a good first step if an intervention seems necessary, but then the person is spiritually battered, and becomes a slave to the new ideology. It's just a replacement authority, doing nothing to break the foundation of the bad habits of thinking and being, doing nothing - really - to heal or empower. Anyway, the idea of brainwashing (although not inaccurate) doesn't really capture the total control of members by the Watchtower, even over their families and friends. It's not just a matter of beliefs and ideas. I also find that people have associations with the word "brainwashing" itself that work to make it less than precise for describing the set of 360-degree control mechanisms that operate and reinforce one another for JWs. No-one changes direction except from their own mind, heart, and spirit. It has to come from within. I believe in individual freedom - the human aspiration to free will, so long as it harm none. I have always liked the image of "planting a seed" - give someone a little thing to remember on some other occasion. Let them decide what to do with the information - even if "nothing" is the answer. If I can give someone even a memory, a bit of information, a different perspective, even just a phrase - that's enough for me. That's a gift, rather than an assault. That's what I want to do. Ultimately, I'm a teacher, not a preacher. Sometimes I get tied up in wanting to be right or to win an argument (we all have scar tissue). I could have handled that interaction better, but you can only do what is possible at the time. It is still difficult for me, sometimes, to see them at the door. I just do the best I can. I have little to no confidence in “deprogramming.” Sometimes “deprogrammers” a cure that’s worse than the disease (to employ an already-overused metaphor). It may be a good first step if an intervention seems necessary, but then the person is spiritually battered, and becomes a slave to the new ideology. It’s just a replacement authority, doing nothing to break the foundation of the bad habits of thinking and being, doing nothing – really – to heal or empower.

Anyway, the idea of brainwashing (although not inaccurate) doesn’t really capture the total control of members by the Watchtower, even over their families and friends. It’s not just a matter of beliefs and ideas.

I also find that people have associations with the word “brainwashing” itself that work to make it less than precise for describing the set of 360-degree control mechanisms that operate and reinforce one another for JWs.

No-one changes direction except from their own mind, heart, and spirit. It has to come from within. I believe in individual freedom – the human aspiration to free will, so long as it harm none.

I have always liked the image of “planting a seed” – give someone a little thing to remember on some other occasion. Let them decide what to do with the information – even if “nothing” is the answer. If I can give someone even a memory, a bit of information, a different perspective, even just a phrase – that’s enough for me. That’s a gift, rather than an assault. That’s what I want to do.

Ultimately, I’m a teacher, not a preacher. Sometimes I get tied up in wanting to be right or to win an argument (we all have scar tissue). I could have handled that interaction better, but you can only do what is possible at the time. It is still difficult for me, sometimes, to see them at the door. I just do the best I can.

]]> By: Billy Delawder http://www.virushead.net/vhrandom/2007/06/12/jws-at-my-door/comment-page-1#comment-75391 Billy Delawder Thu, 14 Jun 2007 15:09:48 +0000 http://www.virushead.net/vhrandom/2007/06/12/jws-at-my-door/#comment-75391 I get em at my door every month! It's sad how they're brainwashed. I get em at my door every month! It’s sad how they’re brainwashed.

]]> By: carrie http://www.virushead.net/vhrandom/2007/06/12/jws-at-my-door/comment-page-1#comment-75385 carrie Thu, 14 Jun 2007 04:01:02 +0000 http://www.virushead.net/vhrandom/2007/06/12/jws-at-my-door/#comment-75385 freaky! and interesting. freaky! and interesting.

]]> By: contemplator http://www.virushead.net/vhrandom/2007/06/12/jws-at-my-door/comment-page-1#comment-75380 contemplator Wed, 13 Jun 2007 20:53:13 +0000 http://www.virushead.net/vhrandom/2007/06/12/jws-at-my-door/#comment-75380 I detest the "light got brighter" response. It's such a cop out. Why couldn't the same be said for other churches who've changed their policies? The longer I'm out and away from the JWs, the more I realize how brainwashed those poor people are. What's scary is that it's sort of a walking around in the daylight kind of cult. They function in the world, but certainly aren't able to see what's around them! I had a woman offer me an invitation to the convention here. I normally just smile and say thanks or no thanks. I don't think I'm at the point of trying to deprogram someone yet. I'd like to be. I detest the “light got brighter” response. It’s such a cop out. Why couldn’t the same be said for other churches who’ve changed their policies? The longer I’m out and away from the JWs, the more I realize how brainwashed those poor people are. What’s scary is that it’s sort of a walking around in the daylight kind of cult. They function in the world, but certainly aren’t able to see what’s around them!

I had a woman offer me an invitation to the convention here. I normally just smile and say thanks or no thanks. I don’t think I’m at the point of trying to deprogram someone yet.

I’d like to be.

]]>