Perspectives please?

Here’s a turnaround. I’m asking readers for your viewpoint and advice.

Something very upsetting happened last night and I’m trying to understand where things broke down, how I should evaluate the whole thing, and what - if anything - I should do about it.

Background: We’ve been friendly with a family in the neighborhood for a couple of years now. They have a son who is a bit younger than Ben, and the boys play together - either here or at their house. We’ve all been rather flexible and informal about having the boys here or there. It’s a help all around.

Their house is a (self-described) matriarchy. They are both intelligent. She enjoys persuading others to her point of view and will use charisma and/or forcefulness as needed. She speaks with speed and volume, and is very quick-paced. Her decisions are self-directed. He is easy-going and conciliatory, speaks softly, has a slower pace. He prefers a more task- than people-oriented experience - and seems to have some attention problems from time to time. I mention their preferred behaviors because it is relevant to the way the whole situation evolved. Both have a tendency to drop details/procedures/rules, whether because (in her case) she is involved in a conversation or (in his case) he’s not really focused on the task at hand.

We have had a couple of misunderstandings before. Once, they were out of communication despite a pre-arranged plan and it meant that John couldn’t go with me to an important event. Another time, she picked the boys up, but then didn’t go back to the house, or didn’t answer her cell phone, or return my call. By the time I got home from work, I was in a near-panic. She had taken them to McDonald’s and was using the playground to keep them occupied while she worked on reports. Once, she said she was going to take care of dinner for the boys; Ben told me that dinner was pretzels and rice-cakes. I fed him dinner when he got home, just before he went to bed. More recently, I got nose to nose with her in order to try to convince her not to go into attack mode at the school (that doesn’t fly here in Georgia - people here would feel battered and abused by that - and we finally talked about strategy on some issues she had with the school policies). I can be aggressive and persuasive too - but it is a challenge even for me to get a word in edgewise if she’s on a rant. These little things have gotten smoothed out, but there is a bit of a pattern.

There has been a lot of pleasant time too. It’s nice to have a girlfriend nearby, and we met when we were both trying to finish Ph.D.s while caring for small children. She can be very charming and interesting company, and she gave me some professional advice just the other day that was very helpful. He has helped me with a couple of things around the house - installing a dimmer switch, fixing my speakers, etc., and I enjoy talking with him, too. So - all in all - it’s not exactly an easy friendship between the families, but it’s been a fairly good one.

Yesterday, they offered to take Ben in the afternoon and keep him for a sleepover. John and I had planned to catch a movie. My understanding was that they were going swimming at their friend’s house - I (mistakenly) thought that this was at a house on their street, a place we had already seen and that we knew. Then, the boys would play, have dinner, have the sleepover, and I’d come to pick him up in the morning.

John and I didn’t end up going out. We couldn’t agree on a movie. There weren’t any films playing that we both wanted to see. So we rented “Paycheck” (which was fine except for the completely gratuitous car chases and such) and had a relaxing evening at home.

At about 9:45, we got a call from the husband. They were just checking to see if we were home yet, because Ben was saying that he would rather just come home instead of having the sleepover. In an offhand way, he mentioned that they were still at the friend’s house. It was really too chilly to swim very much in the pool, so they went on paddle-boats in the lake. Now they were sitting around a fire roasting marshmallows.

I guess I kind of froze. I didn’t process what he was saying right away. I just said that we were here, and they could drop Ben off on their way home. I didn’t even ask to speak to Ben. I did ask if Ben was unhappy about something, but he said no - Ben just said he missed us and wanted to spend the night at his own house.

When I got off the phone, a kind of sick feeling in my stomach started. I thought they were around the block. They’re at a lake? Where is this lake? Paddle-boats? Were there life preservers? It’s almost ten at night, and I don’t know where my 7-year old son is, but he’s not around the corner having a sleepover with a friend.

John and I talked for a while about this. Maybe it became too big a thing. I’m not sure.

Anyway, I ended up calling back to ask if they were on their way. They weren’t. The kids were watching tv inside the house, the adults were still outside. I asked where exactly they were - a town maybe 10 miles or so from here.

So then I said that we were a little upset about this. My understanding was that they were swimming at their friend’s house this afternoon. I thought they would be at their house, and that by now Ben would be asleep. We really needed to give permission for a trip out somewhere else, especially if it involved any kind of boat on a lake. Also, it was too late for him to be out at a stranger’s house. I said that really wasn’t cool with us. We needed always to know where exactly Ben was. In future, if plans change, we really needed to be kept informed so that we could decide if the new plans were ok with us.

He said sure, he could understand, ok. They were headed back now.

At 11, they finally arrived. I was waiting on the front steps when they drove up. Both boys were asleep in the back seat. Ben was barefoot and still wearing a swimsuit. I ushered him into the house - told him to get into his pjs and get into bed. We agreed that John should stay inside because he was very angry and he tends to say things he would regret later. Ben went right to him, and they headed over to Ben’s room.

I wasn’t planning on saying much. I thought it would be better to discuss it the next day, but she went on the offensive. What’s the big deal? She had told me she was going swimming at their friends’ house. The boys were with them. It was fine.

Well, my understanding was that Ben was around the corner. I repeated that John and I have to grant permission for outings, especially if they involve water. I didn’t hear anything about staying out until 11 at night at an unknown location.

She argued that it wasn’t her fault if I didn’t realize it was a different friend than I had assumed. She said that they love Ben and he had a great time and they were with him. She intimated that I was questioning her trustworthiness. I said it wasn’t a matter of trust - if we didn’t trust them, Ben wouldn’t be out with them at all. We just needed to know where Ben was - all the time - and it was our parental job to decide whether or not to grant permission for his activities outside the house.

She said I was over-reacting. They were just over a friend’s house and decided to stay.

I said that the bottom-line is just that this is my kid, and this is my rule. I need to know where he is, and I need to give permission for changes in plan.

She started to argue some more - and I finally raised my voice and said, “Look, that’s it. It’s non-negotiable. These are the conditions under which my son goes anywhere without one of us.”

She said “you are so mean” and shouted at her husband to get back in the car. They took off.

I came back inside the house, tucked Ben into bed. He was cold and sleepy so I cuddled with him for a few minutes until he dozed off again. John and I stayed up and tried to process what happened. He finally went to sleep, but I was up until about almost four with a moderate amount of anxiety. I kept getting up and pacing, going outside. I was very thirsty. When I would get back into bed, I felt very tense and uncomfortable, and I would get up again. I felt like I needed to go outside to get enough oxygen. I didn’t have heart palpitations or anything like that, but there was a physical side to it. I’m guessing it was probably just adrenaline. It wasn’t really anger, but really kind of a somewhat panicky anxiety. I was finally able to relax by listening to music on my iPod and distracting myself so that I would stop thinking about it. Unfortunately, I woke up at the same time as always and couldn’t go back to sleep.

I don’t think I handled the situation very well. Part of why that might have been is that once I realized that Ben was off somewhere and I didn’t even know where he was or all of the people he was with, I felt like I had been a dangerously irresponsible parent and felt overwhelming fear and guilt. How could it be that I’m sitting in my house late at night and my son wants to come home and I don’t even know where he is to go pick him up?

It wasn’t unexpected that she would have gone on the offensive, and I am also somewhat predictable in not allowing myself to be bullied into compliance with anyone or anything. I knew that would be a problem, which is why I spoke to the husband about my concerns first. I should probably have just said a firm “good night” and discussed it at another time when I wasn’t so… well… freaked.

John pointed out that we would have handled it completely differently if we had their kid with us. First of all, if we said we were going somewhere to swim for a couple of hours in the afternoon, we would have told them where it was. If we decided to stay for dinner, we would have called to say there’s a change in plans, etc. Being out on a boat in a lake, being out at someone else’s house in another town, keeping the kids out (and up) just isn’t something it would occur to us to do when we were taking care of someone else’s kid.

The other thing is the practical side of the matter. From a purely utilitarian viewpoint, we get less from them than they get from us, if you know what I mean. In a way, it would be just as easy just to cut things off - they can get to be a bit draining at times. On the other hand, the boys really like each other, and there aren’t many other children in the neighborhood. Their kid will be clamoring to see Ben starting about… now. Last night had an air of finality, but they adore their kid and it’s going to be hard to deny him. Also, their schedule is very unpredictable at times and I think they rely on us in ways that will be very inconvenient for them to have to cover in some other way. And I do like them, even if it is sometimes difficult. I suspect that she is escalating still (”working herself into a tizzy” is John’s description), but I’m also guessing that there will be some attempted contact within the next couple of days. The problem is, it will probably still be in attack mode, and I’m not going to be able to deal with that very well if it is.

This is one of those occasions when I would be really good at giving perspective and advice - if only it weren’t me. I am too close to the situation, and my maternal protective mode is in overdrive.

So I’m asking you - especially parents - to tell me anything that occurs to you as you read this. It will give me a way to bracket and look at it from different sides. I would really appreciate your thoughts and advice.

Perspective? Comments? Suggestions?

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9 Responses


  1. Vance Harwood Says:

    First of all I don’t think you are out of line with your position at all. As a child gets older I would expect them to take increasing responsibility to recognize that things weren’t playing out as planned and let their parents know, but Ben is years away from that. At one level this was a simple misunderstanding, but the attitude the other parents showed is disconcerting. First of all, they are not respecting your right as Ben’s parents to establish ground rules. They obviously didn’t think this outing would be a problem, but once you have clarified things that should have been the end of it. The other disconcerting thing is that they seem to be people that just expect everything to just work out and be ok. They’re right; things do work out ok most of the time, however when it is my kid I’m not comfortable with most of the time. Of course you can’t protect them from everything, but things like life preservers, seat belts, helmets, and adequate supervision provide a significant margin of safety against the ordinary mishaps.
    Looking forward, I’m sure there is no question that they will have to agree to your rules before Ben will be spending any more time with them. Can the overall relationship survive to get to that point? Good playmates are often not easy to find, so it seems worthwhile to try to repair things. Heidi, you are probably way ahead of me on the interpersonal dynamics, but the best course that seems open to me, given the personality profiles you have sketched out, is the self-deprecating approach (e.g. “Maybe I am overprotective of my child, but I’m just not comfortable doing it any other way”). If you can stomach this I suspect it won’t require a superior acting job on your part—sensitivity does not sound like this women’s strong suite.

    Posted on September 4th, 2007 at 12:27 am


  2. Nick Says:

    It was wholly inconsiderate and disrespectful. You’re right it’s not a matter of trust, it’s a matter of parental responsibility. I hate to use this as a measuring stick, but consider a Dept of Fam & Child Svcs person asking you if you know where your child is. Or their asking them if they had express permission to take the child somewhere. It’s not carte-blanche to receive authority to watch a child then take them anywhere. What if they went sky-diving? Ok, so paddle-boating and sky-diving are different points along the continuum of responsibility - where the line is drawn is not their prerogative - it’s yours.

    A large bellows runs out of air. When it inflates again, it’s usually different air. This friend has learned about you and your rules. Her considering them stupid is not germane to your authority to have them.

    Posted on September 4th, 2007 at 5:31 am


  3. Mary Says:

    Boundaries, mothers intuition, common courtesy, just some of the things that popped into my head reading this. Also, happens all the time!. It is unbelievable to me that she could not understand why you were upset. I still know exactly where my kids are and they are 17 and 13! I had neighbors much like this family - they just did not seem to think it was weird that their 7 year old kids were down by the lake playing (without adult supervision) and without boundaries. Kids need rules. I am a “fly by the seat of my pants” person, I find it hard to plan more than a week in advance (life throws too many curves!) but I would NEVER take someone elses child anywhere without them knowing it. When I was at home and if the school bus was late and I was the only Mom at the bus stop, I would call my friends (at work) and say “The bus is late, can I take your child to school?” What if I had gotten into a car accident? You need to know where your child is at all times. You need to know that (1) their needs are being addressed and (2) they are safe and (3) they are being watched. I cannot believe Ben was still in his swimsuit. Was it dry? He could catch a cold, or worse, what lake, was there bacteria? he could get a yeast infection! It is hard to be reasonable when your child is involved. I can be a calm person, but put my kid in a corner and I come out with my claws drawn (Just ask the person who called last week from the Army looking for my 17 year old son!) I think I can safely say they won’t be calling again! LOL But seriously, you were completely within your rights. It is hard, but I would not let him over there for a while, have the boy play at your house. It is not a “control issue” but a mothers knowing best issue. I am not saying your neighbors are irresponsible, but your parenting is not theirs. Common sense should rule. I totally agree with you - a long talk is in order if you want to stay friends, but she needs to understand your point of view. she sounds rather bully like to me. Last word - go with your gut. Instinct prevails.

    Posted on September 4th, 2007 at 7:00 am


  4. traci Says:

    I don’t think you’re out of line at all. My first thought is ‘just how invested are you in the convenience issue’? How important is it for you to have somewhere for Ben at the last minute…just in case?

    My daughters have friends who I limit their time with to time at our home. Because I don’t trust their parents and believe it’s wrong to penalize the kids who have no control over their parents actions.

    What is all comes down to is TRUST YOUR GUT. It’s the most important thing. If you think you’re making a big deal outta nothin’…let it go…if you are sure of yourself and how you feel about the situation, go with that.

    You already know the answer my dear. (((Heid)))

    Posted on September 4th, 2007 at 11:59 am


  5. Vanda Says:

    I agree with you 100% I would have reacted the same way. To be honest I’m gobsmacked that she reacted that way. I’d have fallen over myself tell you how sorry I was. I’m sitting here shaking my head over her.

    When my kids were young we had loads of sleep overs and if I wanted to take them out for ice cream for instance and that wasn’t on the “ok’d already by the parents plan”, then their parents got a phone call to get the ok.

    I can’t give you any more advise that you have already been given.

    It is so hard to know what to do when the kidlets are good friends.
    Good luck.

    Posted on September 4th, 2007 at 2:02 pm


  6. PBG Says:

    Really amazing that you were verbally and emotionally assaulted in this way, just for showing concern for your son. Having said this, I think I know to whom you are referring in your story, and like you, I am not surprised at her “aggressiveness.” She makes a lot of people react as you did because damaging people’s psyche re-enforces her feelings of superiority. I could tell you stories as well, but that is not the point here.

    What is important is your relationship with your son; that much is overwhelmingly clear in your story. I would expect no less of a good and loving parent. The fact is, we can cut our friends slack, but not when it comes to our children. And frankly, I have found that since I have been minimizing my contact with this person, I have much less stress in my life.

    Yes, I would prefer it be repaired, but you can only hit your head against a wall so many times before you realize that nothing will change. So cut yourself some slack. You’ll never get your mind around her ego. It’s too hard, and as her husband will tell you, it requires more effort than even he is willing to put forth a great deal of the time. I hope it’s not too late for him to salvage some of his psyche, but I know there is still time for you. While I know it’s hard to lose a friend, especially when she can be so “fascinating,” for your own well being, do the following:

    1) Forgive her in your mind. No need for extra friction if it gets in the way.

    2) Forgive yourself for being a loving, trusting and good friend who must preserve her own well being and LET HER GO.

    You know, this is the time of year when Jews approach God for forgiveness. One of the customs is to take pieces of bread to a moving body of water and cast the bread in as the embodiment of one’s sins. Well, perhaps you can take a similar approach to casting away your guilt over ending a relationship that no longer serves you. As another friend of mine - a motivational speaker - says, “Stay away from those kind of people. They’re no good for you.”

    Posted on September 4th, 2007 at 2:18 pm


  7. VirusHead Says:

    Thank you so much for all these great insights and perspectives. It is really very deeply appreciated.

    Ben and I talked about his experience - he enjoyed the paddle-boats and they did have life-preservers on. But he was tired and bored at a certain point and just wanted to go home. He has sleepovers once in a while with other kids, and he’s only ever wanted to come home a few times so that was a red flag for me, too.

    A friend here recommended another thing - I am telling Ben just to ask for the phone and call me directly if he ever has a problem or even just wants me to come and get him. He knows the number already.

    I think it might have worked out if she hadn’t gone on the offensive when she got here. No-one has called me “mean” since I was about six years old.

    As far as our friendship, it’s pretty strained - I think it’s up to them to make an overture. If that happens, I’ll try to work it through - but if not, not. A real friend wouldn’t cut things off over an issue like my parental concern.

    All I really wanted to hear was that in future I would be kept apprised of what was going on, and given the opportunity to say “yes” or “no.” If she’s not understanding that, I can’t really allow anything more. If she does understand that, and it’s an simply ego thing, then I don’t really need that kind of drama.

    As for the friendship between the boys, Ben has a lot of friends. It’s nice to have an informal option that doesn’t require planning, but it’s not necessary. The boys will still see each other at school in any case.

    Posted on September 4th, 2007 at 2:58 pm


  8. Dana Says:

    I would first like to thank you for your comment on my posting. It actually hit home and if you read Day 20 - you will see that I have realized I would like to wait……

    As for the situation…….I am 31, and my mom still worries about me. You seem like an amazing parent. It is more of a lesson about not talking when angry (from HER perspective) - she may have felt guilty herself???? Not sure there. In reading it, your response seemed natural, including the anxiety after your comment to her.

    Anyway, your story is another one in the universe describing the depth of love between child and parent.

    –Soul Dancer

    Posted on September 5th, 2007 at 10:53 pm


  9. JollyRoger Says:

    Years ago, my teenager had a friend whos mom tried to be a buddy to all the teenyboppers.

    That, by itself, turns on all of my senses.

    Well, she wanted to know if he could go riding on her motorcycle with her one day. I said “nope,” which should have been it-but she decided to give me basically the same spiel you got. It doesn’t take me long to form up a response, and I let her get through maybe 4 or 5 sentences before I cut her off.

    “I don’t believe I asked you about how you feel about the boy. I also don’t believe I accused you of not caring about him. But what I said goes. You do with your kids what you want to do, but G___ isn’t your kid now, is he? This discussion is closed.”

    She stammered, grunted, wound up turning around and walking off. Her hubs looked at me like he might even be thinking of defending his wife, but whatever was on my face must have been enough to convince him it wasn’t a good idea.

    Later on, after the boy had grown, I found out Mommy used to do things like roll joints with them. But I digress….

    Within 2 weeks of our little argument, she wrecked that bike and f’d herself up proper. I am guessing that her professed love of my son would not have prevented his injury or death had he been on it with her.

    Posted on September 7th, 2007 at 10:32 pm

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