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Argue Pros and Cons of Healthcare Legislation Here

Argue Pros and Cons of Healthcare Legislation Here

The actual dialogue that we should be having has been eclipsed by the pathologies of the American public.

This post is for arguing the pros and cons of the actual bill, ok?

Civil dialogue, only, please. Stick to topic and argue the actual bill!

Ready Jonathan? Ready Phil? Ready Michael? Anyone else that wants to join in?

Here is your forum. Make your case. See if you can be fair and adhere to the rules of civil dialogue. Maybe then some points could arise that are actually important to everyone.

Here’s how this specific conversation started on Facebook:

I posted this link:

Swastika painted at Georgia congressman’s office – Yahoo! News – Someone spray-painted a large swastika on a sign outside the office of a Georgia congressman who was involved in a contentious argument over health care at a recent community meeting.

And this comment:

“So, this is Georgia and I’m confused. Is this an accusation or a proclamation?”

Feedback from Friends

Michael: Atrocities of WWII aside, that really can’t ever be put aside… EVER.. I’m actually kinda’ impressed that they have both the direction and the tilt correct.. given the usual pool of suspects, anyway. Unlike the one who painted it onto the Plymouth Rock backward… and was caught..

Heidi:
There’s a disconnect for me though. Rush, Limbaugh, etc. have been comparing Obama/Democrats to the Nazis all week, without being aware of the resurgence of the KKK and those sorts of attitudes among their base? Unlikely. Maybe it’s just especially weird here, this week.

Michael:
meh… he’s a clown who’s paid to fill a time slot.. you’d think by now people would wise up against per-minute ideology.

Phil: Typical. The sub-moronic trailer trash who are being goaded and funded to trash the nigg… I mean, that esteemed gentleman of color who happens to be president, praise Jesus and may the man die slowly… lack any apparent form of irony, rationality, intellect or historical knowledge. They DO, however, appear to know how to use spray paint. I guess all those opposable thumbs aren’t totally going to waste!

Phil: PS: Just in case my meaning was not totally clear, I am NOT referring to Obama by any form of racial slur. I am reflecting a sad truth about those who are so vehemently opposed to anything and everything the man does. At heart, they’re just terrified of a colored president, and will believe – or do – anything to counter that apparently terrifying reality.

Jonathan: I’m one of those who dislike the President’s policy decisions. I couldn’t care less what color he is. His policies scare me. Most frightening is the clear difference between his public words, and his actions. In other realms, that would be called lying.

Phil: *sighs*

The “lying” here, Jonathan, is being done by Obama’s opponents. Thanks for being one more American taken in by the high-stakes con-game being run to keep us shackled to the insurance companies! You are buying the lies wholesale, and we’re all paying the bill. If you want to know the truth, READ THE DAMNED PLAN, not the utter fabrications about the plan being spread by Sarah Palin’s lackeys and masters. It’s called “lying,” all right, but Obama isn’t the one doing it.

Phil: And as for “frightened,” be frightened by the people who are starting riots and inciting hatred at town hall meetings. This was done before, Jonathan, using exactly the same playbook. Germany, 1933. Look it up, and see who’s REALLY playing Hitler now.

Jonathan:
Wow. Do you have your tinfoil hat on to block the mind control impulses from the evil republican-neo-cons? We do have that vast right-wing conspiracy including insurance companies…

On a serious note, I’ve only seen/read excerpts from the bill, and those sections are disturbing. How about I post some links to those sections which clearly contradict the Obama rhetoric about the bill? I won’t have time until tomorrow night though. Gotta do laundry.

Phil: Who needs tinfoil hats? All you need is half a brain. As for the “mind control,” it’s quite simple, really: lies, lies, and more lies, backed up by utter fabricated hysteria from Rush Limbaugh, Sarah Palin and FOX News. Utter. Complete. Fabrications. No evil conspiracies necessary. Just the old Vladimir Lenin truism: “A lie told often enough … Read Morebecomes the truth.”

Regarding the insurance companies, please watch the interview with former Sigma executive Wendell Potter; in it, he tells Bill Moyers exactly what they do, why they do it, and how they get away with it… including a mention of the “third-party dirty work” that would be employed to stop health care reform attempts. See http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/watch2.html

As for the proposed bill, see: http://thomas.loc.gov/home/gpoxmlc111/h3200_ih.xml

Start from here – or start from your own concerns.

America Slouching Toward Fascism

America Slouching Toward Fascism

Bush’s comment on Islamic “fascists” continues to tickle at my mind, and I’m not alone. Some of the characteristics of some kinds of fascism are there, but fundamental and very essential traits are also missing – the economic, the nationalistic. Our own U.S. of A. is actually closer to an outright fascistic regime. Some say it’s already here.

Classic projection onto the enemy, or at least that’s the reaction they are hoping for? Or is it just names at the playground? You Nazi! You Fascist! You Bully!

Or worse, is the vocabulary a sign of a softening up American prelude to more wars against nations (rather than abstractions like “terrorism”)? More regime changes, say in Iran and/or Syria? Nukes? Who knows – not much would surprise me from this administration. This vocabulary seems to have been tested out by none other than Rick Santorum the Insufferable. Anyone remember why Iran dislikes us?

Even worse, Santorum was patently dishonest when he failed to explain why many in Iran, in 1979, came to view America as its enemy. In fact, it was an American-backed coup in 1953, followed by twenty-five years of repression by Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi that sparked the Iranian Revolution of 1979, the rise of Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, and much of the suspicion and hostility toward the United States that remains today.

It’s called “blowback.” Moreover, Iran’s rise in the Middle East today is, in large measure, yet more “blowback” — resulting from the lies and exaggerations about Iraq (in preparation for America’s invasion) which despicable neoconservatives and conservatives, like Santorum, foisted upon an unwitting, if not witless, American public nearly four years ago.

Yet, four years ago, serious people were warning that an invasion of Iraq – the illegality and immorality of it aside – might empower Iraq’s Shiites, thus benefiting Iran, might lead to an insurgency and perhaps a civil war, which, in turn, might embroil the entire Middle East.

Now, out of fear that the public might seize upon those prescient warnings and turn out of office the reckless instigators of this Middle East conflagration, obnoxious and desperate conservatives like Rick Santorum speak yet more reckless nonsense in order to save their political skins. Yes, even if it means duping Americans yet again for the sake of another regime change, pouring more fuel on the raging fire and provoking yet more blowback.

Some tidbits for you to ponder:

“fascism – A system of government that exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with belligerent nationalism.” – American Heritage Dictionary

Granted that the 19th century was the century of socialism, liberalism, democracy, this does not mean that the 20th century must also be the century of socialism, liberalism, democracy. Political doctrines pass; nations remain. We are free to believe that this is the century of authority, a century tending to the “right”, a Fascist century. – Benito Mussolini, Doctrine of Fascism

“There’s basically two principles that define the Bush Administration policies: stuff the pockets of your rich friends with dollars, and increase your control over the world. Almost everything follows from that. If you happen to blow up the world, well, you know, it’s somebody else’s business. Stuff happens, as Rumsfeld said.” – Noam Chomsky, Interview by Geov Parrish, December 23, 2005

Before the rise of fascism, Germany and Italy were, on paper, liberal democracies. Fascism did not swoop down on these nations as if from another planet. To the contrary, fascist dictatorship was the result of political and economic changes these nations underwent while they were still democratic. In both these countries, economic power became so utterly concentrated that the bulk of all economic activity fell under the control of a handful of men. Economic power, when sufficiently vast, becomes by its very nature political power. The political power of big business supported fascism in Italy and Germany.

Under the sway of neo-liberalism, Thatcher, Reagan, Mulroney and George W. Bush have decimated labour and exalted capital. (At present, only 7.8 per cent of workers in the U.S. private sector are unionized — about the same percentage as in the early 1900s.)

Neo-liberals call relentlessly for tax cuts, which, in a previously progressive system, disproportionately favour the wealthy. Regarding the distribution of wealth, the neo-liberals have nothing to say. In the end, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. As in Weimar Germany, the function of the state is being reduced to that of a steward for the interests of the moneyed elite. All that would be required now for a more rapid descent into fascism are a few reasons for the average person to forget he is being ripped off. Hatred of Arabs, fundamentalist Christianity or an illusory sense of perpetual war may well be taking the place of Hitler’s hatred for communists and Jews.

Ironically, Hitler pandered to the middle class, and they provided some of his most enthusiastically violent supporters. The fact that he did this while simultaneously destroying them was a terrible achievement of Nazi propaganda.

Mussolini, the one-time socialist, went on to abolish the inheritance tax, a measure that favoured the wealthy. He decreed a series of massive subsidies to Italy’s largest industrial businesses and repeatedly ordered wage reductions. Italy’s poor were forced to subsidize the wealthy. In real terms, wages and living standards for the average Italian dropped precipitously under fascism.

Even this brief historical sketch shows how fascism did the bidding of big business. The fact that Hitler called his party the “National Socialist Party” did not change the reactionary nature of his policies. The connection between the fascist dictatorships and monopoly capital was obvious to the U.S. Department of Justice in 1939. As of 2005, however, it is all but forgotten.

It is always dangerous to forget the lessons of history. It is particularly perilous to forget about the economic origins of fascism in our modern era of deregulation. Most Western liberal democracies are currently in the thrall of what some call market fundamentalism. Few nowadays question the flawed assumption that state intervention in the marketplace is inherently bad.

As in Italy and Germany in the ’20s and ’30s, business associations clamour for more deregulation and deeper tax cuts. The gradual erosion of antitrust legislation, especially in the United States, has encouraged consolidation in many sectors of the economy by way of mergers and acquisitions. The North American economy has become more monopolistic than at any time in the post-WWII period.

As in pre-fascist Germany and Italy, the laissez-faire businessmen call for the state to do their bidding even as they insist that the state should stay out of the marketplace. Put plainly, neo-liberals advocate the use of the state’s military force for the sake of private gain. Their view of the state’s role in society is identical to that of the businessmen and intellectuals who supported Hitler and Mussolini. There is no fear of the big state here. There is only the desire to wield its power.

— from Paul Bigioni. Toronto Star. Toronto, Ont.: Nov 27, 2005. pg. D.01 Online version

Some interesting articles…

Ur-Fascism can come back under the most innocent of disguises. Our duty is to uncover it and to point our finger at any of its new instances — every day, in every part of the world. Franklin Roosevelt’s words of November 4, 1938, are worth recalling: “If American democracy ceases to move forward as a living force, seeking day and night by peaceful means to better the lot of our citizens, fascism will grow in strength in our land.” Freedom and liberation are an unending task. – Umberto Eco, Eternal Fascism: Fourteen Ways of Looking at a Blackshirt

Provocative Questions

Provocative Questions

Dennis Rahkonen (‘The Republican Wile E. Coyote‘, 6-27-05) thinks that Durbin’s apology was unwise. In his view, we should perhaps be making more actual historical comparisions between this administration and that of Hitler’s Germany. Here are some starter questions for eager researchers…

Did German motorists have “Support Our Troops” ribbons on their Volkswagens in 1943?

Did conservatives loyal to Hitler pooh-pooh reports of Jews being abused in concentration camps in the same way neocon Bush backers blithely dismiss documentation by Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International and even the FBI that Muslims are being routinely abused at U.S. detention centers in Afghanistan, Iraq and Cuba?

Did they actually believe the contrived pretext for the Wehrmacht’s assault on Poland? (Nazi provocateurs dressed in Polish military uniforms “attacked” German border posts and a German radio station.)

Was there a German entertainer like Toby Keith who rallied backing for the official cause with jingoistic, xenophobic phonograph recordings?

When news of Guernica, Lidice and the Warsaw Ghetto reached the German masses, were they any less propagandized about what really happened there then we are about Fallujah?

Was the German press as craven in refusing to criticize Hitler’s purpose as the American media are in failing to seriously challenge George Bush?

Finally, will history and humankind accord his despicable war for oil and hegemony any kinder status than they have for the crimes of the Third Reich?