• So much is under debate.
• So much is culturally modulated.
• So much has a history of discussion rather than a solid truth claim.
• So much seems a little strange.

Warning: Your answers may differ.
This is meant to be thought-provoking; sorry for all the things I’m leaving out.

Comments are welcome, but only if you’re civil. All comments are moderated.

For each of the following, is this a person?

Non-living:

• Rock – NO!
• Table – NO!
• Book – NO!

Beings:

• Flower – NO!
• Tree – NO!
• Monkeygrass – NO!
• Frog – NO!
• Beetle – NO!
• Ant – NO!
• Tilapia – NO!
• Worm – NO!
• Dog – NO! (DISAGREEMENT)
• Cat – NO! (DISAGREEMENT)
• Cow – NO! (DISAGREEMENT)

Scale/Boundary:

• Electrons – NO!
• Nuclei – NO!
• Fungi – NO! (LIFE, MAYBE GROUP INTELLIGENCE OF A KIND, NOT PERSON)
• Bacteria – NO! (LIFE, MAYBE GROUP INTELLIGENCE OF A KIND, NOT PERSON)
• Virus – NO – um… probably not! (DEAD/ALIVE, IMMORTAL? SOME UNKNOWN)
• Prions – NO! (DEAD/ALIVE, IMMORTAL? MUCH UNKNOWN)
• Mitochondria – NO! (MAY HAVE DEVELOPED HUMANS, HISTORY OF DISCUSSION)
• Planet – NO! (ECO-REACTIONS, SOME DISAGREEMENT)
• Star – NO! (HISTORICAL SMALL DISAGREEMENTS)

Sex/Gender:

• Female – YES! (DISAGREEMENT)
• Male – YES! (SOME DISAGREEMENT)
• Hermaphrodite – YES! (DISAGREEMENT)
• Transvestite – YES! (DISAGREEMENT)
• Transgender – YES! (DISAGREEMENT)
• Heterosexual – YES! (SOME DISAGREEMENT)
• Homosexual – YES! (DISAGREEMENT)
• Bisexual – YES! (DISAGREEMENT)
• Married – YES! (SOME DISAGREEMENT)
• Single – YES! (SOME DISAGREEMENT)
• Complicated – YES! (DISAGREEMENT)

Class/Money/Economy:

• Poor – YES! (DISAGREEMENT)
• Rich – YES! (DISAGREEMENT)
• Middle-class – YES! (DISAGREEMENT)
• Blue-collar – YES!
• White-collar – YES! (DISAGREEMENT)
• Upper-class – YES! (DISAGREEMENT)
• Migrant – YES! (DISAGREEMENT)
• Inner-city – YES! (DISAGREEMENT)
• Rural – YES! (DISAGREEMENT)
• Suburban – YES! (DISAGREEMENT)
• Socialist – YES! (DISAGREEMENT)
• Communist – YES! (DISAGREEMENT)
• Crony Capitalist – YES! (DISAGREEMENT)
• Regulated Capitalist – YES! (DISAGREEMENT) (etc.)

Education:

• Highly educated – YES! (DISAGREEMENT)
• Highly trained – YES!
• Untrained – YES!
• College – YES!
• No College – YES!
• Under-educated – YES!
• Literate – YES!
• Sub-literate – YES! (DISAGREEMENT)
• Intentionally ignorant – YES! (DISAGREEMENT) (etc.)

Political Values:

• Democrat – YES! (CONFUSION AND DISAGREEMENT)
• Libertarian – YES! (CONFUSION AND DISAGREEMENT)
• Republican – YES! (CONFUSION AND DISAGREEMENT)
• Independent – YES! (CONFUSION AND DISAGREEMENT)
• Green – YES! (CONFUSION AND DISAGREEMENT)
• Reconstructionist – YES! (DISAGREEMENT)
• Imperialist – YES! (DISAGREEMENT)
• Fascist – YES! (CONFUSION AND DISAGREEMENT)
• Nazi – YES! (HEATED DISAGREEMENT)
• Uninterested – YES! (DISAGREEMENT)
• Fanatical – YES! (DISAGREEMENT) (etc.)

Nationality / Ethnicity / Race:

• American – YES! (MINOR DISAGREEMENT)
• Non-American – YES! (DISAGREEMENT)
• Registered US Immigrant – YES! (SOME DISAGREEMENT)
• Non-registered US Immigrant – YES! (DISAGREEMENT)
• American Terrorist – YES! (SOME DISAGREEMENT)
• Non-American Terrorist – YES! (DISAGREEMENT)
• Same Ethnic/Racial Composition as Yourself – YES!
• Different Ethic/Racial Composition from Yourself – YES! (DISAGREEMENT)
• German – YES! (SOME DISAGREEMENT)
• French – YES! (SOME DISAGREEMENT)
• Kenyan – YES! (SOME DISAGREEMENT)
• British – YES! (SOME DISAGREEMENT)
• Chinese – YES! (SOME DISAGREEMENT)
• Iraqi – YES! (DISAGREEMENT)
• Afghani – YES! (SOME DISAGREEMENT)
• Iranian – YES! (DISAGREEMENT)

Religion:

• Christian – YES! (DISAGREEMENT)
• Muslim – YES! (DISAGREEMENT)
• Jehovah’s Witness – YES! (DISAGREEMENT)
• Wiccan – YES! (DISAGREEMENT)
• Buddhist – YES! (DISAGREEMENT)
• Fanatical – YES! (DISAGREEMENT)
• Orthodox – YES! (DISAGREEMENT)
• Evangelical – YES! (DISAGREEMENT)
• Reformed – YES! (DISAGREEMENT)
• Unitarian – YES! (DISAGREEMENT)
• Atheist – YES! (DISAGREEMENT)
• Eclectic – YES! (DISAGREEMENT) (etc.)

Corporate Groupings: (UNDER CONTESTATION!!!!!)

• Homeland Security – NO!
• CIA – NO!
• Dept. of Eduction- NO!
• NRA – NO!
• ACLU – NO!
• Catholic Church – NO!
• US Marines – NO!
• Al-Qaeda – NO!
• Taliban – NO!
• KKK – NO!
• Halliburton – NO!
• Chevron – NO!
• Microsoft – NO!
• Google – NO!
• MacDonald’s- NO!
• Citibank – NO!
• Walmart – NO!

Stage / Distinctions:

• Egg – NO!
• Sperm- NO!
• Fertilized egg – NO! (DISAGREEMENT – UNDER CONTESTATION!)*
• Zygote – NO! (DISAGREEMENT- UNDER CONTESTATION!)
• Fetus w/Beating Heart – ALIVE, BUT NOT PERSON! (DISAGREEMENT- UNDER CONTESTATION!)
• Fetus w/Brain Waves – MAYBE! (DISAGREEMENT – UNDER CONTESTATION!)
• Late-term Pregnancy – MAYBE! (HEATED DISAGREEMENT- UNDER CONTESTATION!)
• Baby – COULD BE! (SOME DISAGREEMENT, HISTORICALLY NOT, BUT PROBABLY CONSIDERED ONE NOW)
• Toddler – PROBABLY! (DISAGREEMENT – HISTORICALLY NOT, BUT PROBABLY CONSIDERED ONE NOW)
• Child – PROBABLY! (DISAGREEMENT- HISTORICALLY NOT, BUT PROBABLY CONSIDERED ONE NOW)
• Teenager – PROBABLY! (DISAGREEMENT – PAIN IN THE BUTT, AND SOME CONFUSION ABOUT RITE DE PASSAGE)
• Adult – YES!
• Middle-Aged – YES!
• Elderly – YES! (DISAGREEMENT – HISTORICALLY SO, MAYBE STILL IS)
• Corpse – PROBABLY NOT (SOME RELIGIOUS DISAGREEMENT)
• Australopithecus – NO! (EXTINCT HOMINID! SOME DISCUSSION)
• Neanderthals – NO! (EXTINCT HOMINID! SOME DISCUSSION)
• Early Modern Human (EMH)/Anatomically Modern Human’ (AMH) (also referred to as Cro-Magnon) – UNKNOWN (DISCUSSION and DISAGREEMENT)
• Homo Sapien Sapien – YES! (MINOR DISCUSSION, MOSTLY BY CURMUDGEONS)

* Fertilized chicken egg does not equal chicken either.

This post is for arguing the pros and cons of the actual bill, ok?

Civil dialogue, only, please. Stick to topic and argue the actual bill!

Ready Jonathan? Ready Phil? Ready Michael? Anyone else that wants to join in?

Here is your forum. Make your case. See if you can be fair and adhere to the rules of civil dialogue. Maybe then some points could arise that are actually important to everyone.

Here’s how this specific conversation started on Facebook:

I posted this link:

Swastika painted at Georgia congressman’s office – Yahoo! News – Someone spray-painted a large swastika on a sign outside the office of a Georgia congressman who was involved in a contentious argument over health care at a recent community meeting.

And this comment:

“So, this is Georgia and I’m confused. Is this an accusation or a proclamation?”

Feedback from Friends

Michael: Atrocities of WWII aside, that really can’t ever be put aside… EVER.. I’m actually kinda’ impressed that they have both the direction and the tilt correct.. given the usual pool of suspects, anyway. Unlike the one who painted it onto the Plymouth Rock backward… and was caught..

Heidi:
There’s a disconnect for me though. Rush, Limbaugh, etc. have been comparing Obama/Democrats to the Nazis all week, without being aware of the resurgence of the KKK and those sorts of attitudes among their base? Unlikely. Maybe it’s just especially weird here, this week.

Michael:
meh… he’s a clown who’s paid to fill a time slot.. you’d think by now people would wise up against per-minute ideology.

Phil: Typical. The sub-moronic trailer trash who are being goaded and funded to trash the nigg… I mean, that esteemed gentleman of color who happens to be president, praise Jesus and may the man die slowly… lack any apparent form of irony, rationality, intellect or historical knowledge. They DO, however, appear to know how to use spray paint. I guess all those opposable thumbs aren’t totally going to waste!

Phil: PS: Just in case my meaning was not totally clear, I am NOT referring to Obama by any form of racial slur. I am reflecting a sad truth about those who are so vehemently opposed to anything and everything the man does. At heart, they’re just terrified of a colored president, and will believe – or do – anything to counter that apparently terrifying reality.

Jonathan: I’m one of those who dislike the President’s policy decisions. I couldn’t care less what color he is. His policies scare me. Most frightening is the clear difference between his public words, and his actions. In other realms, that would be called lying.

Phil: *sighs*

The “lying” here, Jonathan, is being done by Obama’s opponents. Thanks for being one more American taken in by the high-stakes con-game being run to keep us shackled to the insurance companies! You are buying the lies wholesale, and we’re all paying the bill. If you want to know the truth, READ THE DAMNED PLAN, not the utter fabrications about the plan being spread by Sarah Palin’s lackeys and masters. It’s called “lying,” all right, but Obama isn’t the one doing it.

Phil: And as for “frightened,” be frightened by the people who are starting riots and inciting hatred at town hall meetings. This was done before, Jonathan, using exactly the same playbook. Germany, 1933. Look it up, and see who’s REALLY playing Hitler now.

Jonathan:
Wow. Do you have your tinfoil hat on to block the mind control impulses from the evil republican-neo-cons? We do have that vast right-wing conspiracy including insurance companies…

On a serious note, I’ve only seen/read excerpts from the bill, and those sections are disturbing. How about I post some links to those sections which clearly contradict the Obama rhetoric about the bill? I won’t have time until tomorrow night though. Gotta do laundry.

Phil: Who needs tinfoil hats? All you need is half a brain. As for the “mind control,” it’s quite simple, really: lies, lies, and more lies, backed up by utter fabricated hysteria from Rush Limbaugh, Sarah Palin and FOX News. Utter. Complete. Fabrications. No evil conspiracies necessary. Just the old Vladimir Lenin truism: “A lie told often enough … Read Morebecomes the truth.”

Regarding the insurance companies, please watch the interview with former Sigma executive Wendell Potter; in it, he tells Bill Moyers exactly what they do, why they do it, and how they get away with it… including a mention of the “third-party dirty work” that would be employed to stop health care reform attempts. See http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/watch2.html

As for the proposed bill, see: http://thomas.loc.gov/home/gpoxmlc111/h3200_ih.xml

Start from here – or start from your own concerns.