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Conversation with a Jehovah’s Witness

Conversation with a Jehovah’s Witness

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A brave Jehovah’s Witness has engaged with me in the comments of the Following the Christ post.

Snowhoney expresses the usual views in the usual ways, so it’s a good example of the trained mindflow of a practicing Jehovah’s Witness. Sometimes JW comments are so emotive or hateful that I hesitate to claim that they really represent the views or practices of JWs in general, but this is good example of someone who is devout in the JW way.

I say that Snowhoney (I’m assuming a “she”) is brave because normally JWS are not allowed to read anything that is at all critical of the Watchtower Society. Her engagement is, perhaps, a kind of witnessing, although (like my own responses) it seems intended for other readers than myself. So – let’s have an audience. If any of the topics under discussion interest you, weigh in with your own views.

JWs are SO Not Threatened

JWs are SO Not Threatened

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“On Faith” (an online joint venture by the Washington Post and Newsweek magazine) published an essay called “Witness to Separation of Church and State,” by Joel P. Engardiom, on June 5, 2007. Joel was the director, writer and narrator of “Knocking,” the documentary about Jehovah’s Witnesses that ran on the PBS series Independent Lens.

Yet as otherwise law-abiding, taxpaying citizens, they remind us that the America worth fighting for is an America that does not force people to follow a single ideology with patriotic fervor. And as a group with fundamental religious beliefs, they remind us that it is possible to stand firm in your faith without feeling threatened by those who choose a different path.

Right. Although I agreed with his larger point about not trying to hijack the country, that’s the bit that encouraged me to comment.

The supreme irony to me is that their contributions to the history of civil liberties legislation in the U.S. are not honored in any way in their own congregations. There is no discussion or debate, expressions of individual spiritual calling or questioning or research are forbidden.

The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society has created a free sales force, using fears about a killer God and the end of the world. I am in contact with many recovering Jehovah’s Witnesses, and I help people with JW relatives and friends to navigate the minefield of potential problems in dealing with them.

I applaud the results of the JW legal team on civil rights, but they didn’t do it for the sake of America, which to them is simply part of the Satan-controlled “system of things.” The most recent accomplishment of their legal team was to pay off a cluster of child abuse cases – with a gag order.

I agree with the sentiment about ideological fervor, but it’s just blatantly false that JWs do not feel “threatened by those who choose a different path.” Ask their non-JW family members about that.

JWs don’t even vote, and they are forbidden to run for office. Not exactly the banner group for the Constitution…

(See blog posts on JWs by clicking on my website link above.)

JWs at My Door

JWs at My Door

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Two pleasantly plump Jehovah’s Witness women have just departed, their undelivered invitation to the upcoming District Convention in hand.

They were still huffing and puffing a bit from the exertion required to climb the driveway when they rang the bell. For a moment, I was tempted to pretend not to be home. Sigh. Nah. I instructed Ben to go play elsewhere in the house so that I could talk to them.

Follow the Christ. Sigh. I let them go through their opening remarks, and observed them closely. They were black women, a little bit younger than me – in their thirties, I’d guess. They both wore clingy dresses of artificial fabric – uncomfortable clothing for a muggy day like this. One wore glasses. They had kind, somewhat keen, expressions, and by their manner of speaking I would guess that they both had some amount of higher education – a bit unusual.

I found myself feeling sorry for them, and so my self-presentation was, I think, somewhat muted – even sad.

I told them that I was aware of the convention, although I hadn’t known where the local one was being held. I’d even blogged on the topic. That surprised them, and one exclaimed, “You blogged on it?!? Were you ever a baptized Jehovah’s Witness?” Interesting question – I wonder if they ask that now to establish whether they might be talking to an apostate. But no, I was never baptized. I told them that my father had been an elder and I was raised as a Jehovah’s Witness.

I asked them in what way they thought they were following the Christ. They looked at the invitation for clues, but it was really very general. “Well, we go out in service, like he told us to, and we oppose Satan.”

Wow. I’ve never heard the “opposing Satan” thing before. Yikes. When you consider that JWs believe that this entire “system of things” is ruled by Satan (including schools, police, government…) that’s a pretty wide-open sort of statement. They used to confine Satan remarks to insiders.

Hmmm. Where to begin.. “But there are a lot of things that Jesus instructed people to do that Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t do, and a lot of teachings he gave that JWs don’t really follow, right? Forgiveness, compassion, caring for the poor, sharing bread and wine together….” My words kind of faded off. There was so much to say, but…

They looked utterly dismayed, even stupefied. I don’t think they were ready for that kind of response.

Before they decided to start quoting, I tried once more. “If you’re Christian, and you have love and spirit amongst yourselves, wouldn’t it better to follow the Christ than to follow the governing body and the Watchtower? Look at how many times they have been wrong, how many times they have changed their guidance to you.”

Oh, they had a response to that, all right. “We are all imperfect, but the light gets stronger and they have more understanding…” They started to smile again, almost like mirror reflections of one another. There is reflective strength in the buddy-system.

“Why would you be salespeople for a very wealthy, very worldly corporation in New York, especially when – as you say – they are only imperfect men? Why would you hand your lives over to this group of men, just because they claim to be God’s channel? Don’t JWs always criticize other religions for putting priests and bishops and holy men between the congregation and God? Why would you need another mediator than the Christ? I think there are many good Jehovah’s Witnesses. I just believe that Jehovah’s Witnesses are being misled.”

Their smiles had frozen at the first sentence. Now they were expressionless. Totally blank.

“I’m sorry. I know you do what you think you are supposed to do, but I think that you are being misled. I truly believe that you are Watchtowerites, not Christians.”

I looked at them miserably, hands open. Then I handed back the invitation, and they turned, without a word, and – slowly – stiffly – started walking back down the driveway. They went directly to their vehicle, got in, and drove off.

Yea, sisters, time for a coffee break.

They will label me, they may even put that “X” over my house on the territory map at last. There wasn’t really very much in what I said to vilify me, but in another way, I said the worst possible thing: I spoke against God’s supposed channel on earth. And it may have scared them, because they are trained over and over to think that anyone who could do that is demonic, controlled, a slave of Satan.

I wonder if either one, maybe years from now, will ever read the scriptures and start thinking about the wider message that Jesus tried to deliver. They looked like strong women. What if they somehow found themselves able and willing to intervene when they saw cruelty – what if they were able to say “this is not a loving thing that we are doing.” Maybe they could allow themselves other kinds of service to others than simply preaching the end of the world. Maybe they could spread kindness. You never know.

Language is a virus. Maybe one small idea may turn out to have been contagious, mutating, incubating, ready to re-emerge later in changed form. Someday. Maybe.

“We had as our goal to capture, brain wash and establish thousands of Kingdom Publishers, making them all think alike, like robots. When in 1938 the Theocracy was decreed, all these fell down in abject submission before this newly erected ‘Image of the Beast’ of the Watchtower religion of ‘buying and selling’ (Rev. 13). All the companies of Jehovah’s Witnesses at that time voted in a resolution declaring that henceforth and always that would accept all instructions and appointments handed down by the Watchtower Society. All shreds of congregational independence was thus given up, together with every semblence of a personal Christian religion. A new world organization based on the concept of robot-like obedience and performance had now been realized and would now expand to become a New World Society. It is described by Jehovah’s Witnesses as God’s Organization or Kingdom. It is in actuality nothing more than a dictatorship of the Faithful and Wise Servant Class in Brooklyn” – William J. Schnell, Thirty Years A Watchtower Slave, p.130.

Russian JWs Awake(n) – A Beginning?

Russian JWs Awake(n) – A Beginning?

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It is possible that internal discussion about Watchtower policies has begun, at least among some Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Internal discussion or debate is very rare – those who attempt to initiate such are quickly disfellowshipped so that their “unsheep-like” attitude does not “infect” the congregation. The Watchtower Bible and Tract publishing empire/religious group is totalitarian – very much a “top-down” organization. They believe that their Governing Body is literally God’s earthly representative. Disagreement with the Governing Body or the Watchtower publication’s interpretations are not tolerated. Members do not hold them accountable for anything.

To be honest, I can’t tell if this is from any organized group of people or not. There is a forum and a site, but I don’t know how many people may be in agreement with what it says. I don’t know how many among them might actually be active JWs, either. But when I got this via a news bulletin from Silent Lambs (where it was submitted) this morning, I saw it as a hopeful sign that some JWs might be opening their eyes on this issue.

To the people of Russia and of the world

D E C L A R A T I O N of active members of the Jehovah’s Witnesses International Organization

We are compelled to write this Declaration because of recent events in the United States that have to do with established incidents of sexual abuse of minors involving some appointed servants (including elders) of the Jehovah’s Witnesses religious organization. We want to express our opinion about the situation and about the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society position in this regards.

Our organization’s leadership — the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses — remains silent and pretends that nothing extraordinary is going on. Nevertheless we cannot remain silent any longer, because we see it all, we face these problems in our everyday lives and we feel confused and ashamed when others point us to such incidents. Thus we in Russia feel very uneasy about these facts.

We do recognize clearly that the present internal policies of our organization are favorable and conductive to concealment of such transgressions against law and morals. All who attempt to press for just punishment of the offenders will themselves come under condemnation unless they have enough evidence against an accused person – oftentimes presence of two or more eye-witnesses of a given incident is requested, whereas one-man witnesses of crimes committed against close kin are dismissed. Therefore a criminal often goes unpunished and privately continues to commit felonious acts against his victim.

We do not know of any single instance when elders of a congregation would turn to the law enforcement agencies with a request to investigate claims of sexual abuse, although crimes of such kind should be investigated by experts.

This probably happens because the elders themselves, as we know, are often involved in similar transgressions (including, to be sure, not only sexual sins, but also deceit, licentiousness, rudeness etc,). Praise God, we do not know of any instances of pedophilia in Russia, but in other situations actions of elders are being portrayed in such a way as if nothing has happened — elders being often “shielded” by fellow elders and/or regional overseers. All this gives rise to feelings of indignation and aversion. We have enough examples to prove our case, but it is not our goal to publish these.

Unfortunately it turns out that it has become more important for Jehovah’s Witnesses to maintain authority of the elders and of the organization in general than to maintain biblical ethics and morals.

We’d be glad to find ourselves mistaken, but thus far all facts speak in favor of such conclusion.

On behalf of all Jehovah’s Witnesses indignant with the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society policies we would like to make apologies to those who have suffered from such actions on part of Jehovah’s Witnesses. We are truly ashamed of their actions. We do this because we recognize that the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses, with its usual practice of improper “pudency”, will never do it. Public should know that among Jehovah’s Witnesses both in Russia and in the world there are hundreds and thousands of honest people — they see all the lawless deeds of their organization and sincerely mourn it.

We also do recognize that many policies of our organization are not biblical, but rather based upon dogmas put forth by the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses. One result of such unchristian position is their “policy of concealment” as applied to various crimes committed by members of the organization. Rank-and-file Jehovah’s Witnesses are mostly unsatisfied with this policy, but they remain silent for fear of being repressed by the leadership which has only one interest: to maintain a positive public “image” of the organization.

We do not want to be condemned by God along with those who stubbornly persist in their delusions (2 Thes. 2:11-12). Having put our hope in His mercy and submitted everything under His mighty hand (1 Peter 5:6), we pray for our brothers that God may open their eyes (Rom. 10:1). Members of the Jehovah’s Witnesses International Organization

E-mail: mnenie00@mail.ru
Forum: http://jwforum.org
Website: http://allistinawt.by.ru

I see here open criticism – and it seems to me that it may come from a grounded integrity that feels compassion and sorrow, a sense of priorities, and a more evolved form of ethics. An apology to victims – because the Governing Body will never do it. An acknowledgment that JWs will not refer these cases to the police for investigation. The practice of “shielding.” An understanding that the dogmas exceed biblical justification. (Side quibble: I don’t even want to know what they mean by pudency. It is a word, ranging in meaning from modesty to shame to prudery (as you might guess, it refers to pudendum). Do they mean “prudence”, perhaps?)

I keep hoping that – for the sake of JWs themselves – they will learn how to begin local discussions and debates, and that they find within themselves the wherewithal to step outside the controlling structures and think things through for themselves.

In order to prevent such discussions from happening (or to deal with them if they start), I am speculating (if not outright predicting) that before too long the Governing Body will be forced to announce that they have “received new light from Jehovah” on some of these issues. (I have always wondered about the specific mechanism of the new light delivery system – is there a receiver near the Brooklyn Bridge?)

I know that some Jehovah’s Witnesses have to have noticed the steep decline of compassion and kindness (among other things) among their “sisters and brothers,” their “friends” over the last several years. JWs often quote the scripture about the “fruits of the spirit” as a way of arguing that only they are the true religion. Protecting predators while ignoring victims is not a comfortable stance for people who do their best to conduct their lives in the way they believe God wants and is asking of them.

It is my feeling that the greatest change would occur when JWs find the courage to start having local discussions on some of these issues, rather than simply parroting the talking points sent over from Brooklyn on how to answer questions at the door. True friends and sisters and brothers share their insights, and each one’s gifts contribute to the body as a whole. Spirit does not reside only in the head (so to speak). The fact that almost no JWs partake of the wine and bread at the Memorial, and that even those who consider themselves of the 144,000 never meet with the Governing Body, could make them think about what kind of “communion” or “network” they might really be involved with, but it doesn’t happen.

Some of them know, deep inside, that there are more important things than maintaining the image of Jehovah’s Witnesses in the eyes of the world. Reform is long overdue.

Brenda Lee DID it!

Brenda Lee DID it!

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OH….my….GOD. Oh, sweet lord in heaven.. (string of expletives following, unsuitable for blog publication).

I can’t believe it. Brenda Lee has done what I’ve fantasized about doing since I was 12. I’ve spent a fair bit of time trying not to think about it, for fear that I might actually do it.

A mildly disrespectful, gum-snapping Brenda attended the Jehovah’s Witness Memorial Service (their annual memorial of the Last Supper, at which almost no-one partakes of the “emblems” of wine and bread) and she…PARTOOK!

SHE DID IT!

Excuse the capital letters, but my heart is still racing in empathy.

It’s so nice to know that I wasn’t the only one to think of doing it. Now that someone has done it, maybe it’s time to let go of that particular fantasy (don’t worry, I have others).

Of course, my fantasy continued after that point. I imagined that I would stand up and say that everyone there should partake of the bread and wine, that to refuse the communion made a mockery of the entire ceremony. It reinforced the idea that almost all Jehovah’s Witnesses were unworthy to share in the spirit – at the same time that they thought they would be the ones sheltered from their loving God’s wrath during the Last Days and through the Apocalypse. Yeah, I thought I’d get a chance to preach a little sermon of my own.

I’m in shock. If you haven’t had any involvement with Jehovah’s Witnesses, it will be difficult for you to fully comprehend the transgressive nature of what she did. The only ones that are supposed to partake are of the 144,00 thousand destined to rule in heaven “as kings” with the Christ (Jesus / the Archangel Michael) after Armageddon. Among other things, they don’t mention any “queens.” I’ve never seen anybody partake. Not anybody.

I had recently ordered another copy of Brenda Lee’s book to send to a friend, but when I saw that she had inscribed the book with a message (Truth, love + light… Brenda Lee), I couldn’t bring myself to part with it. I sent my older copy instead.

After finishing my previous post, I clicked on the Technorati tag at the bottom of the post to check on how things were going with Brenda Lee. I came across the video that way. There is a decent (if a little flippant) introduction, and then – with the help of two accomplices – she filmed the whole thing. And here it is:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcoTE1Skw8A[/youtube]

I was screaming out to John. As much as I’ve tried to convey the effects of having been raised a Jehovah’s Witness, I think he still has a little trouble understanding. I don’t often feel obvious effects of it these days, partly because the work I do trying to help others is extremely healing to me. His own upbringing involved a kind of lukewarm semi-involvement in one of the major protestant denominations, and he’s in the agnostic/atheist camp now. Lately, watching what right-wing fanatics have done in this country, and seeing the daily slaughters over questions of religion in the news, he is even less likely to engage in discussions about spirituality. He smiled mildly at me (yelling “look at this! look at this! She’s doing it! She’s doing it!”) and… well… I guess it’s just one of those things. You had to have had certain kinds of experiences to fully understand. You had to be there…

I somehow thought that if I ever did that, lightning would strike in some way. I would be dragged out by a passel of elders. People would go berserk. Something. Man, she took her time munching that wafer down – very noisy – and gulped down three good swallows of the wine.

And nothing happened. It didn’t even look like anybody said anything to her.

The public is invited to the Memorial, so she was – technically – invited to be there. She wasn’t intruding on a private ritual. A lot more people attend the Memorial than go to the five weekly meetings, or go door-to-door. It’s a chance (as you can hear in the video) for them to preach to newbies, or to family members that aren’t yet JWs, or to the ones that drift in and out.

Of course, they would consider her an apostate for writing a book about her experiences as a JW, and if they had known who she was, they wouldn’t have let her enter. When they print those memorial statistics, just know that one of the memorial partakers is actually an “apostate.” I wonder if they’ll really count her?

I think in a way it was worse for her than for me, because her mother converted when she was a kid. She had already celebrated Christmas and birthdays and all – and then it was taken away. I think that would have been worse than never having known any other way.

I am not baptized according to the doctrine of any religious group. I did participate once in a christian communion – but the circumstances were very unique. At the time, I did feel very moved by the ritual. To me, it’s almost a kind of suggestion, a mind placebo. Or perhaps it’s a kind of witchcraft. I wrote a whole chapter in my dissertation comparing communion and vampirism. When you grow up as a Jehovah’s Witness, you can’t help but think about the symbolism of blood and spirit.

I am still very spiritually driven – I think spiritual independence is one of the aspects of my freedom that I most value.

Still, I feel like whooping in laughter – yes, a kind of mildly wicked kind of whooping – imagining sitting there next to her, and – not being to overcome the expected behavior – whispering, “All right, all right, quit fidgeting! Do you have to chew the gum like that?!?!” and then realizing, and losing my composure, and laughing, laughing, laughing. I would probably have become somewhat hysterical. Even now, I’m not sure that the whole experience wouldn’t have been too traumatic for me to take.

The last time I went to a meeting, many years ago now in my home congregation in Massachusetts, I was hemmed in by older women, then confronted by an elder. And that was before I ever had a web site or anything like that. They just somehow had heard that I was in an MA program in religion. That was enough. I get a shiver even driving by a Kingdom Hall. It’s hard for others to understand. Somehow, at the door it’s different. Everywhere I’ve lived I’ve had multiple visits from JWs, and gradually I’ve gotten to the point where I have conversations, even somewhat enjoyable ones. But I don’t think I could sit through another one of those meetings ever again.

I can’t help wondering if the entire congregation was staring her down. The elders didn’t even corner her later?!?!

Yeah, I’m expecting some expressions of disapproval in the comments. It was a transgressive sort of thing, kind of like having sex on a church’s consecrated alter (Abelard and Heloise found it rather exciting), but she didn’t really disrupt anything in a major way. Heh-heh. She didn’t make a scene. Considering everything, she showed self-control.

I’m sorry, but on this one I have to laugh. I can only laugh. Oh……oh. On the way out, she advised some JW teens to hang in there – someday this would all be over. That congregation is going to be gossiping about this for a long time to come.

I don’t think I would be able to follow through on going to the Memorial and partaking, because I don’t think I’d be able to resist being a little more… theatrical. Knowing that I would have a hard time resisting the temptation to be very vocal and disruptive, I wouldn’t do it. So, no worries, dear rank and file JWs. You won’t be seeing me at the Memorial. You don’t want me to be there, and I don’t want to be there. It’s too traumatic for me. Even Brenda Lee showed some signs of anxiety and stress as the moment approached.

Of course, if hundreds of other people all over the world all decided to do it at once… hmmm.

My adrenaline levels are still high. I can’t believe I’m sitting here. I think I’m going to go outside and giggle helplessly to myself.

Brenda, sweet girl, more details please! Swing by and comment, I beg of you! Send me your phone number immediately! We’ve got to talk!

Opposing Watchtower Sex Abuse Policies

Opposing Watchtower Sex Abuse Policies

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Someone has put some of the coverage of the Silent Lambs in Nashville up at YouTube. Check it out.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlRHaO0y4ro[/youtube]

Over a five day period in February, 16 civil child sex abuse lawsuits against the Watchtower Society (the Jehovah’s Witness headquarters in New York City) were quietly settled in three states (CA, TX and OR). The victims involved were essentially coerced into signing ‘gag orders’ that prevent them from discussing the cases. One Jehovah’s Witness elder who was sued was long time San Diego resident Rick McLean who was featured on America’s Most Wanted in March. He is suspected of molesting more than 30 children.

Molestation victims and advocates met to support abuse victims and to protest the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ policies on sexual predators and abusers (some of which include discouraging victims from seeking help from “worldly authorities,” requiring two witnesses to the abuse, keeping information from the police, allowing known abusers to interact unsupervised with children, and not informing congregations of potential issues or problems when predators transfer to other congregations).

They encouraged victims and witnesses to get help.

In light of the recent multiple-case settlement, they also urged all faith groups to stop requiring secrecy (gag orders) in settlements.

For more details see these previous posts: